Peter Thiel Believes the Future Belongs to College Dropouts • Hacker News Board

Re: Peter Thiel Believes the Future Belongs to College Dropouts

#21

Post by orangecat » Tue, Apr 12, 2011, 5:24 PM UTC

martythemaniak wrote: post #5

yummyfajitas wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some context is extremely helpful. Peter Thiel only believes democracy is instrumentally valuable. I.e., it is valuable only insofar as people vote for more freedom, and harmful when they don't [1]. He believes women vote against freedom. Thus, he believes women voting is harmful. http://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/the-educa... [1] The belief that democracy is valuable only when people vote for your p…

*Peter Thiel's definition of freedom. It's important to note that a lot of libertarians' ideas about freedom and pretty much everything else is comically out of step with how most people think. They think it is because they have stumbled on the magical answer to everything (the response to any problem facing society is a trivial "no government") and that everyone else is a blind idiot, when in fact they are an odd fr…

It's important to note that a lot of libertarians' ideas about freedom and pretty much everything else is comically out of step with how most people think.

This is equally true for the stereotypical west coast HN liberal.

Re: Peter Thiel Believes the Future Belongs to College Dropouts

#22

Post by starwed » Tue, Apr 12, 2011, 5:30 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #7

martythemaniak wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*Peter Thiel's definition of freedom. It's important to note that a lot of libertarians' ideas about freedom and pretty much everything else is comically out of step with how most people think. They think it is because they have stumbled on the magical answer to everything (the response to any problem facing society is a trivial "no government") and that everyone else is a blind idiot, when in fact they are an odd fr…

Of course Peter Thiel's opinion of politics will be informed of Peter Thiel's definition of freedom. The fact that it is out of step with how most people think (in particular, women and welfare beneficiaries) is precisely why Peter Thiel is pessimistic about democracy. This is explained in the short essay of his that I linked to. Apart from attempts to lower Thiel's status, what value do you believe your comment adds…

This guy is pushing an idea that, on the surface, I disagree with. Confronted with it, I then wonder if it is worth taking more time to understand the guy's arguments, to see if there is something of worth there.

Evidence that this guy has other ideas that are more clearly bullshit keys me in that, no, I don't.

Re: Peter Thiel Believes the Future Belongs to College Dropouts

#23

Post by Goladus » Tue, Apr 12, 2011, 5:46 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #18

brudgers wrote: post #13

A person under 20 has a far better chance of making $100,000 in professional sports than getting it from the Thiel Foundation. I suspect that for a person under twenty, the odds of getting $100,000 from Thiel are even lower than the odds of winning the same amount in Texas Hold'em. Not to mention that they also have a far better chance of getting an academic scholarship to an elite institution.

That's a strawman. Nobody is saying that the only way to be an entrepreneur is through Thiel's program. And once you remove that implicit assumption from your snark, there's nothing left.

That's not a strawman at all. If the argument is that any given high school graduate would be better off starting a company than going to college, using 20 hand-picked or self-selected candidates isn't very good support. Pointing out that fact is important context.

Re: Peter Thiel Believes the Future Belongs to College Dropouts

#24

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 12, 2011, 5:47 PM UTC

starwed wrote: post #22

yummyfajitas wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course Peter Thiel's opinion of politics will be informed of Peter Thiel's definition of freedom. The fact that it is out of step with how most people think (in particular, women and welfare beneficiaries) is precisely why Peter Thiel is pessimistic about democracy. This is explained in the short essay of his that I linked to. Apart from attempts to lower Thiel's status, what value do you believe your comment adds…

This guy is pushing an idea that, on the surface, I disagree with. Confronted with it, I then wonder if it is worth taking more time to understand the guy's arguments, to see if there is something of worth there. Evidence that this guy has other ideas that are more clearly bullshit keys me in that, no, I don't.

[deleted]

Re: Peter Thiel Believes the Future Belongs to College Dropouts

#25

Post by jakeg » Tue, Apr 12, 2011, 5:55 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #3

chrismealy wrote: post #2

Peter Thiel also wishes women couldn't vote. http://gawker.com/#!5231390/facebook-backer-wishes-women-cou...

Some context is extremely helpful. Peter Thiel only believes democracy is instrumentally valuable. I.e., it is valuable only insofar as people vote for more freedom, and harmful when they don't [1]. He believes women vote against freedom. Thus, he believes women voting is harmful. http://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/the-educa... [1] The belief that democracy is valuable only when people vote for your p…

That's not really context, just another assertion that allowing women to vote is a "bad thing", just restated in different phrasing, which obviously provides nothing in the way of an argument.

Re: Peter Thiel Believes the Future Belongs to College Dropouts

#26

Post by martythemaniak » Tue, Apr 12, 2011, 6:51 PM UTC

orangecat wrote: post #21

martythemaniak wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*Peter Thiel's definition of freedom. It's important to note that a lot of libertarians' ideas about freedom and pretty much everything else is comically out of step with how most people think. They think it is because they have stumbled on the magical answer to everything (the response to any problem facing society is a trivial "no government") and that everyone else is a blind idiot, when in fact they are an odd fr…

It's important to note that a lot of libertarians' ideas about freedom and pretty much everything else is comically out of step with how most people think. This is equally true for the stereotypical west coast HN liberal.

If that was jab at my direction, you got wrong coast :p

You know the "Mom Test" for software? Is your software easy enough to use for you mom? If not, then you probably have work to do.

Try the same with your ideology, whatever it is. I know libertarianism (especially Thiel's brand) fails pretty spectacularly.

Re: Peter Thiel Believes the Future Belongs to College Dropouts

#27

Post by brudgers » Tue, Apr 12, 2011, 7:16 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #18

brudgers wrote: post #13

A person under 20 has a far better chance of making $100,000 in professional sports than getting it from the Thiel Foundation. I suspect that for a person under twenty, the odds of getting $100,000 from Thiel are even lower than the odds of winning the same amount in Texas Hold'em. Not to mention that they also have a far better chance of getting an academic scholarship to an elite institution.

That's a strawman. Nobody is saying that the only way to be an entrepreneur is through Thiel's program. And once you remove that implicit assumption from your snark, there's nothing left.

The primary alternatives to handing someone $100,000 is to teach them how to bootstrap, which contradicts Thiel's pet libertarian anti-educational theories or dependence on luck. There is patent absurdity in considering Thiel's approach as a viable alternative to education at any sort of scale comparable even to Ivy League admissions never mind offering such an alternative to the millions of college students under 20 or the 20,000,000+ residents between 15-19 (that works out to $2 trillion at $100,000 apiece with approximately $500,000,000,000 additional per year).

Re: Peter Thiel Believes the Future Belongs to College Dropouts

#28

Post by jerf » Tue, Apr 12, 2011, 7:18 PM UTC

Goladus wrote: post #23

jerf wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a strawman. Nobody is saying that the only way to be an entrepreneur is through Thiel's program. And once you remove that implicit assumption from your snark, there's nothing left.

That's not a strawman at all. If the argument is that any given high school graduate would be better off starting a company than going to college, using 20 hand-picked or self-selected candidates isn't very good support. Pointing out that fact is important context.

The post I replied to has been edited since I made my comment. It previous had a much stronger false dichotomy where the only entrepreneurs were those in Thiel's selected group. I still think the false dichotomy offered is too strong, but it's less pronounced than it was.

Re: Peter Thiel Believes the Future Belongs to College Dropouts

#29

Post by jerf » Tue, Apr 12, 2011, 7:23 PM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #27

jerf wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a strawman. Nobody is saying that the only way to be an entrepreneur is through Thiel's program. And once you remove that implicit assumption from your snark, there's nothing left.

The primary alternatives to handing someone $100,000 is to teach them how to bootstrap, which contradicts Thiel's pet libertarian anti-educational theories or dependence on luck. There is patent absurdity in considering Thiel's approach as a viable alternative to education at any sort of scale comparable even to Ivy League admissions never mind offering such an alternative to the millions of college students under 20…

"The primary alternatives to handing someone $100,000 is to teach them how to bootstrap,"

What? Just, what? I have no idea where you get this limited universe of options from. You are aware of the enormous industry dedicated to funding entrepreneurs that aren't this program, right? And how you leap from that to straight-out linear projection of funding all high school students I have no idea, since I do not see anywhere where this is presented as the only possible path (or even the only desirable path), a further strawman you seem to have simply added to the pile. You seem to be just making things up wholesale, then getting upset with those things.

Re: Peter Thiel Believes the Future Belongs to College Dropouts

#30

Post by yummyfajitas » Tue, Apr 12, 2011, 7:40 PM UTC

martythemaniak wrote: post #26

orangecat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to note that a lot of libertarians' ideas about freedom and pretty much everything else is comically out of step with how most people think. This is equally true for the stereotypical west coast HN liberal.

If that was jab at my direction, you got wrong coast :p You know the "Mom Test" for software? Is your software easy enough to use for you mom? If not, then you probably have work to do. Try the same with your ideology, whatever it is. I know libertarianism (especially Thiel's brand) fails pretty spectacularly.

Ideology != consumer software.

Tribalism/racism, cash for votes or "everyone gets a pony" are all pretty easy to sell. Does that make them right? Maybe, if you define "success" as "inflicted on the greatest number of people". In that case, contemporary Chinese fascism is the most successful ideology in the world, and yes, Thiel's brand of libertarianism fails.