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Noam Chomsky: 'There's never been a moment in human history' like this one

thehill.com

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Re: Noam Chomsky: 'There's never been a moment in human history' like this one

#21

Post by guerrilla »

aaron695 wrote: post #17
guerrilla wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only if things turn out fine. It seems like he thinks nuclear war is actually possible and the effects of climate change are coming soon and big. If that's so (I'm not saying it is) then what could possibly be comparable?

> It seems like he thinks nuclear war is actually possible and the effects of climate change are coming soon and big. If that's so (I'm not saying it is) then what could possibly be comparable? That is a tautology kinda. If we assume something that's bigger than anything else happens, what was bigger. Nuclear war is silly, because The Cuban Missile crisis was scarier and probably would have been worse if it had of ki…

The Cuban Missile crisis didn't pan out though whereas WW2 did. I consider WW2 to be the biggest thing that has happened so far which I suspect he might as well, so I take it as him predicting that what is coming will actually be worse than than which The Cuban missile crisis did not turn out to be even though it could have been.

> If climate change all happens in a year instead of 100 years, it's big,

He must not agreee with you on this is what I'm saying.

> tautology

Just a nitpick but please learn what the word means.

Re: Noam Chomsky: 'There's never been a moment in human history' like this one

#22

Post by kasperni »

haunter wrote: post #5

If he means human history = US history then maybe. 1 out of those 5 are very US specific right now (racial unrest). The raging pandemic is once again regional where US is the worst globally but I'd not apply to the same to Europe and not at all to East Asia. The remaining 3 for sure a global problem but even then I do not think a chance for a nuclear war is higher than before say in the Cold War

> If he means human history = US history then maybe.

Don't most posts on HN?

Re: Noam Chomsky: 'There's never been a moment in human history' like this one

#23

Post by guerrilla »

aww_dang wrote: post #20

Doomsayers should understand that opponents hear the following: "This time is different. The end is nigh. Our only hope is for heathens to ascribe to our morally superior political ideology and central planning. Heretic unbelievers must accept the gospel truths of technocracy and scientism!" Make what you will of that, but there must be a more effective way to communicate. Doomsaying is not uncommon. Nor are ideologu…

> central planning

If they hear that then they must not know that Chomsky has spent his life arguing against central planning and "technocracy." He's literally an anarchist. [1]

[1]. https://chomsky.info/19760725/

Re: Noam Chomsky: 'There's never been a moment in human history' like this one

#24

Post by tome »

guerrilla wrote: post #23
aww_dang wrote: post #20

Doomsayers should understand that opponents hear the following: "This time is different. The end is nigh. Our only hope is for heathens to ascribe to our morally superior political ideology and central planning. Heretic unbelievers must accept the gospel truths of technocracy and scientism!" Make what you will of that, but there must be a more effective way to communicate. Doomsaying is not uncommon. Nor are ideologu…

> central planning If they hear that then they must not know that Chomsky has spent his life arguing against central planning and "technocracy." He's literally an anarchist. [1] [1]. https://chomsky.info/19760725/

Yes, most likely most people reading that would not know that about Chomsky.

Re: Noam Chomsky: 'There's never been a moment in human history' like this one

#25

Post by aww_dang »

guerrilla wrote: post #23
aww_dang wrote: post #20

Doomsayers should understand that opponents hear the following: "This time is different. The end is nigh. Our only hope is for heathens to ascribe to our morally superior political ideology and central planning. Heretic unbelievers must accept the gospel truths of technocracy and scientism!" Make what you will of that, but there must be a more effective way to communicate. Doomsaying is not uncommon. Nor are ideologu…

> central planning If they hear that then they must not know that Chomsky has spent his life arguing against central planning and "technocracy." He's literally an anarchist. [1] [1]. https://chomsky.info/19760725/

This lacks nuance for me.

>"CHOMSKY: Let me just say I don’t really regard myself as an anarchist thinker."

https://books.google.com/books/about/Internationalism_Or_Ext...

From the summary of: "Internationalism or Extinction", his new book.

>The introduction and accompanying interviews place these dual threats in a framework of unprecedented corporate global power which has overtaken nation states’ ability to control the future and preserve the planet. Chomsky argues for the urgency of international climate and arms agreements, showing how global popular movements are mobilizing to force governments to meet this unprecedented challenge to civilization’s survival.

He's an anarchist who doesn't regard himself as an "anarchist thinker". He's against central planning, but laments the state's failing ability to "control the future and preserve the planet". He argues for supranational governance to protect civilization.

The proposed solutions seem at odds with the assertion that he is against central planning. I'm not sure if it is fair to define him as an ideologue within narrow political terms. Perhaps it is a case of pragmatism overtaking ideals?

Re: Noam Chomsky: 'There's never been a moment in human history' like this one

#26

Post by brodouevencode »

guerrilla wrote: post #23
aww_dang wrote: post #20

Doomsayers should understand that opponents hear the following: "This time is different. The end is nigh. Our only hope is for heathens to ascribe to our morally superior political ideology and central planning. Heretic unbelievers must accept the gospel truths of technocracy and scientism!" Make what you will of that, but there must be a more effective way to communicate. Doomsaying is not uncommon. Nor are ideologu…

> central planning If they hear that then they must not know that Chomsky has spent his life arguing against central planning and "technocracy." He's literally an anarchist. [1] [1]. https://chomsky.info/19760725/

Don’t follow what he claims, follow how he acts.

Re: Noam Chomsky: 'There's never been a moment in human history' like this one

#27

Post by pwinnski »

caymanjim wrote: post #7

Way to throw the hyperbole, Noam. "Right now" doesn't even crack the top five most historically-important periods in the past century, much less all of human history. There are some unusual things going on right now, but the only one that's going to be remembered in a few decades is Covid. By most other metrics, it's business as usual. From an American perspective, it's absurd to elevate "now" above the Great Depress…

There's a bit more to the linked article than the headline.

> Chomsky said the current age is a “point of confluence of severe crises,” including the threat of nuclear war, climate change, a raging pandemic, economic depression and racial unrest in the United States.

Other events might or might not turn out to be more consequential in the long run, and it still be true that there are more things happening all at once than ever before.

Re: Noam Chomsky: 'There's never been a moment in human history' like this one

#29

Post by puranjay »

tome wrote: post #8
puranjay wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because they got the dates wrong doesn't mean that they got the trend wrong.

"Correctly predicted 10 of the last 0 eco-pocolypses" comes to mind. [Adjust the figures as you see fit, but the latter won't come close to the former.]

That's a very narrow viewpoint. Several species and ecosystems are certainly going through eco-pocalypses even right now. Lots of very poor people have also gone through their own versions of eco-pocalypses

Re: Noam Chomsky: 'There's never been a moment in human history' like this one

#30

Post by aaron695 »

tome wrote: post #19
aaron695 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like he thinks nuclear war is actually possible and the effects of climate change are coming soon and big. If that's so (I'm not saying it is) then what could possibly be comparable? That is a tautology kinda. If we assume something that's bigger than anything else happens, what was bigger. Nuclear war is silly, because The Cuban Missile crisis was scarier and probably would have been worse if it had of ki…

> If climate change all happens in a year instead of 100 years, it's big, but not that big. You'd notice it less that the coronavirus. That's interesting. Can you say more about that? It's very much counter to the conventional wisdom (mass death, mass migration, mass starvation, destruction of coastal civilisation, etc..)

> mass starvation

Due to my hyperbole it's a hard argument that if 100 years happens in one year it'll all be ok.

But yields from crops will improve in some areas and weaken in others

https://www.nato.int/docu/review/articles/2011/02/18/food-se...

So there will be no mass starvation long term, after this super climate change year.

But I see no reason in the USA and Europe if they know what will happen with climate in a year, all the big farms won't adapt within that year.

To put all that change into a year will hammer the poor, but they will adapt within years and I'd see no reason the richer countries couldn't prop them up during the change over.

It's a tough hypothetical. The Netherlands probably couldn't do 100 years of climate change in a year for their dykes... I'm not sure. Maybe they could.

The coronavirus is also a big deal, you'll feel it for decades. What worries about it, is lost time. We are destroying time doing nothing during C19. Climate change 100 years -> 1 year, you'd lost a lot of stuff, but things would plod along.

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