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Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

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Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#21

Post by handmodel »

tyre wrote: post #3

For those wondering why Lyft and Uber doing the shutdown, it's to bully voters into voting their way on Prop 22 in November. They had two years to adjust their businesses for a proposition approved by voters. They chose to spend nine figures fighting it in the press and the courts.

I mean - if no one else comes up with a business now that works well and people enjoy doesn't that prove Uber and Lyft are right in that the platform is valuable and unique?

If California lawmakers are using this as negotiating tactic that's cool with me - but I'm not sure why we wouldn't expect Uber or Lyft to negotiate as well.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#22

Post by CharlesMerriam2 »

Recognize that more reasonable solutions exist, for example, modifying AB5 exempting anyone pulling in >$50K ($25/hour for any hour available or logging into the app).

Propositions, being like an unchangeable binary library, are 'take-it-or-leave-it' laws.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#23

Post by Skunkleton »

blakesterz wrote: post #6

"Uber and Lyft say drivers prefer the flexibility of working as freelancers, while labor unions and elected officials contend this deprives them of traditional benefits like health insurance and workers’ compensation." I was curious about what drivers think. I guess they're not happy [1] but want to be independent contractors still [2]. 1. https://therideshareguy.com/uber-driver-survey/ 2. (In a May online survey dra…

> ...Uber drivers reported earning $13.47 per hour, which means that on average, drivers report that their car is costing them over $6 per hour to operate.

If you were to drive full time, that would get you about 27k/year, which is about the average income that a taxi driver makes. Rideshare companies are asking you to take more personal financial risk than you might as a taxi driver, but giving you more flexibility.

Still 27k/year is not much money really anywhere in the country. I think this is a symptom of some major underlying problems with our economy rather than an indictment of the rideshare industry. If we can't afford to pay drivers a living wage to do their work, then the people who are using these services aren't as well off as they think they are.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#24

Post by handmodel »

AlexandrB wrote: post #11
ztratar wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did not have "years to adjust their businesses" to a changing landscape of demands, the worst-case scenario of which literally destroys their innovation/business. "You had years to plan for us removing 95% of your business!" is quite the argument.

Their business was a legal dodge to begin with and they knew it. You can't start a business selling cocaine through a series of complex transactions such that it's "technically" legal and then complain when the government tries to regulate your "innovation" to bring it in line with existing law.

While cocaine is illegal and most voters still think it should be illegal, no voters think that calling a cab with an app should be illegal (at least provided the driver is compensated fairly).

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#26

Post by r00fus »

creato wrote: post #18
donsupreme wrote: post #9

Uber gained market cap of $4B since this appeal news broke, already spent $100M to fight AB5, all the while they burnt $2B in their last quarter. And yet their argument is they can't afford to spend $300M to cover driver benefits and pay into state unemployment insurance.

> And yet their argument is they can't afford to spend $300M to cover driver benefits and pay into state unemployment insurance. You compared global market cap/revenue losses to just the impact of CA. What happens when other markets follow in CA's footsteps?

This argument that local laws can't be followed because "what would other jurisdictions do" doesn't seem to apply to authoritarian places like China who impose pretty onerous requirements for operation (like state ownership).

There is another option for Uber/Lyft - to let drivers set their prices and/or routes. Of course, that would make them less of a unicorn and more of a utility and that would crater their valuation.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#27

Post by spurdoman77 »

blakesterz wrote: post #6

"Uber and Lyft say drivers prefer the flexibility of working as freelancers, while labor unions and elected officials contend this deprives them of traditional benefits like health insurance and workers’ compensation." I was curious about what drivers think. I guess they're not happy [1] but want to be independent contractors still [2]. 1. https://therideshareguy.com/uber-driver-survey/ 2. (In a May online survey dra…

"I guess they're not happy [1] but want to be independent contractors still [2]."

Any normal employee or freelancer is not happy, but still goes to the job because there are bills to pay. It is normal to want things to be always better but low skill jobs are not going to be goldmines no matter what the regulation says.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#28

Post by umvi »

CharlesMerriam2 wrote: post #22

Recognize that more reasonable solutions exist, for example, modifying AB5 exempting anyone pulling in >$50K ($25/hour for any hour available or logging into the app). Propositions, being like an unchangeable binary library, are 'take-it-or-leave-it' laws.

So basically "if you are poor you can't use Uber/Lyft you would exploit yourself out of desperation. Go find a different job that pays a living wage/benefits. If you are middle class and already making enough to live on, that's cool you can use Uber/Lyft to supplement your income since you won't abuse yourself trying to make the platform sustain you."

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#29

Post by renewiltord »

ffggvv wrote: post #13
wskinner wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share the professions of the people you know whose jobs were destroyed?

one was a contractor for a company that did content moderation/fact checking on a big tech website. when ab5 was passed they predictably laid off everyone in california. others include freelance writers, and other online work

Upwork sent around a "Don't worry about AB5" email but I'm not taking chances. Just ended everything with Cali contractors.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#30

Post by victorvation »

wskinner wrote: post #10
ffggvv wrote: post #8

I’m not sure why we need prop22 specifically targeting rideshare drivers instead of just repealing AB5 i know so many people’s whose jobs were destroyed by it and still haven’t found anything else.

Can you share the professions of the people you know whose jobs were destroyed?

Freelance writers, both bloggers as well as longform investigative journalists.
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