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I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

judiciary.house.gov

21–30 of 369 posts

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#21

I mean, there’s a point to be made about how much monopoly power Apple holds, and it’s now clear these questions weren’t asked until now because lawmakers were really sweet on the maker of their shiny iPhone - but this letter ain’t it. The author is grovelling to the point of it being honestly pitiful. The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motiv…

>The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motivation behind this letter.

The way the letter writer feels a need to keep on praising Apple and their vision and how everything]else is not worth anything make me nauseous.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#22
post #14
post #7

> In November last year the App Review team made it clear that our apps were not welcome in the Store anymore as they actively removed our main app from the Store. They pointed to the rule (2.26) created just a couple of years ago about what kind of apps can recommend apps other than its own (by the way I still believe my apps fit the description). We of course have been aware of this rule since it came out, as we al…

You seem to not be interested in living with your right to install any app you want on your device, which is fine. But do you also believe that other people should not have the right to install software that has not been blessed by an authority on their devices? Do you think that general purpose computing devices, which an iPhone is, should no longer have the capability to run software without third-party auditing an…

> But do you also believe that other people should not have the right to install software that has not been blessed by an authority on their devices?

If they did thirty seconds of research in the market they would see that there is a large ecosystem of devices that allow unsigned apps to be installed by the owner that they could have chosen.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#24
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to not be interested in living with your right to install any app you want on your device, which is fine. But do you also believe that other people should not have the right to install software that has not been blessed by an authority on their devices? Do you think that general purpose computing devices, which an iPhone is, should no longer have the capability to run software without third-party auditing an…

> But do you also believe that other people should not have the right to install software that has not been blessed by an authority on their devices? If they did thirty seconds of research in the market they would see that there is a large ecosystem of devices that allow unsigned apps to be installed by the owner that they could have chosen.

This argument keeps being repeated, and it's basically just "if you don't like it, find a different platform". Do you think that's how our rights should be preserved, by hopping to places and platforms that respect our rights?

Where do we leave those who have to live with their devices, or simply lacked the knowledge to make that important distinction at the time, or things have changed and now they need to install apps that have not been approved by Apple. Wouldn't the solution be to offer people that need to live with their right to sideload apps on their devices an escape hatch, instead of telling them to change platforms?

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#25

I mean, there’s a point to be made about how much monopoly power Apple holds, and it’s now clear these questions weren’t asked until now because lawmakers were really sweet on the maker of their shiny iPhone - but this letter ain’t it. The author is grovelling to the point of it being honestly pitiful. The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motiv…

>The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motivation behind this letter. The way the letter writer feels a need to keep on praising Apple and their vision and how everything]else is not worth anything make me nauseous.

It really makes me wonder about why this letter, out of the presumably many about App Store review, is the one that Tim Cook would read and forward. From where I’m standing it looks like you’d have to come off as an otherwise huge fan to have your criticism taken into account.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#26

I mean, there’s a point to be made about how much monopoly power Apple holds, and it’s now clear these questions weren’t asked until now because lawmakers were really sweet on the maker of their shiny iPhone - but this letter ain’t it. The author is grovelling to the point of it being honestly pitiful. The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motiv…

> The author is grovelling to the point of it being honestly pitiful. The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motivation behind this letter.

Honestly, I interpreted it differently, I saw someone passionate about something, respectfully addressing someone who’s extremely hard to get the attention, and succeeding at it! The problem being discussed is genuine, but I had a good feeling seeing Tim Cook asking his top executives to ponder about it.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motivation behind this letter. The way the letter writer feels a need to keep on praising Apple and their vision and how everything]else is not worth anything make me nauseous.

It really makes me wonder about why this letter, out of the presumably many about App Store review, is the one that Tim Cook would read and forward. From where I’m standing it looks like you’d have to come off as an otherwise huge fan to have your criticism taken into account.

I used to be the person in that letter, for years, and suffice it to say you're correct - the Apple community, at least on Twitter, is divided into those who Get It and understand that what Apple is doing is better for humanity, and those that don't.

Only the people that find their way to the 'right' arguments are consistently welcomed - more than a few famous people in the community had to backpedal into saying Epic is just as bad because they want to make money off app sellers too, and not only that, they _entrapped_ Apple.

Daring Fireball plays a key role in what exactly 'Get It' means - ex. the nauseating amount of people saying all this is cool because something something Epic is a big corporation too.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#28

I mean, there’s a point to be made about how much monopoly power Apple holds, and it’s now clear these questions weren’t asked until now because lawmakers were really sweet on the maker of their shiny iPhone - but this letter ain’t it. The author is grovelling to the point of it being honestly pitiful. The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motiv…

> The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motivation behind this letter.

A lot of people and developers feel the same way about these technologies as the author. They are just opinions, and yours is obviously different, but I wouldn't say it is pitiful.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#29
Wow. I am the author of this email. I have no idea how it resurfaced after 5 years, I was only made aware of this when a friend emailed me the HN link.

The sad thing is it was not just my company which was targeted, but Apple removed this entire product category. We never knew the real reason why, or if it was bigger than just a random app reviewer trying to apply Apple policy, until May 2019.

That's when Bloomberg interviewed Phillip Shoemaker, who ran app reviews from 2009 to 2016 - regarding how Apple systemically removes whole categories of apps. I subsequently spoke to Phillip Shoemaker, who confirmed that Apple executives ordered the elimination of apps that drove downloads to the App Store. He said "Your app drove download volume. Apple doesn’t want any outside sources to drive ratings. So yeah, we got rid of all app recommendation apps." He said he thought it was unfair, but this was something Apple set out to do, and even as Senior Director of App Store (person directly in charge of App Review), he could not stop it.

The other thing that was hard to understand, is we used to have a great relationship with Apple. We were not flying under the radar. Since the App Store first launched in 2008, we used to be invited to all Apple events to see the new product launches, we met with the iTunes team to discuss upcoming initiates for the App Store, our apps were featured on the devices inside of many demo units into Apple Stores. It felt like a complete 180, and until this day I never got a formal conversation on what they actually objected to, beyond being pointed to a vague rule which was applied arbitrarily. They became a brick wall in terms of communication, and this is why I resorted to emailing Tim Cook. I assumed nothing would come of it, but it was the last thing I could think of.I never received a response, and never knew if he even got it, so I was shocked to see it again today from his inbox.

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