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Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety

newscientist.com

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Re: Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety

#21

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

culopatin wrote: post #9
dusted wrote: post #3

This is probably oversimplified, but it does make some sense. Some people are happily trotting about in their objectively miserable lives. Sit them down and let them think on it, and they just might realize how empty their lives are and how little control they have over their situation. I've always been very "mindful" and depending on your inclination to cynicism, that inevitably means finding out that life is what i…

Thinking about every aspect of my life in a very deep and logical way is what got me depressed. And what got me out of it was being busy enough that I didn't have time for that.

This is no different than using alcohol, drugs, etc.

AKA Workaholic. Just another way to distract oneself from the existential dread.

Re: Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety

#23

Post by h0l0cube »

dusted wrote: post #3

This is probably oversimplified, but it does make some sense. Some people are happily trotting about in their objectively miserable lives. Sit them down and let them think on it, and they just might realize how empty their lives are and how little control they have over their situation. I've always been very "mindful" and depending on your inclination to cynicism, that inevitably means finding out that life is what i…

> Sit them down and let them think on it, and they just might realize how empty their lives are and how little control they have over their situation.

As far as I'm aware, most meditation and mindful practices are descendent of Theravada buddhist discipline, which is not so much about rumination, but observing, and not reacting to one's thoughts and sensation, as well as the understanding that these thoughts and sensations will come to pass.

So say, if you found yourself in a cycle of self-pitying rumination, with enough practice you would hopefully become aware of the arising of thought, and learn to not let it affect you, and allow it to pass. Such practice is difficult, and often dispiriting. Proper guidance by an expert is definitely encouraged, and mitigates these adverse outcomes.

Re: Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety

#26

Post by dTal »

It's important to bear in mind that meditation is a religious practice specifically aimed at causing ego-death. Yogis writing about the practice (before it became big business) freely admit all sorts of horrible-sounding mental side effects, but couch them in religious terms (and encourage the acolyte to push through until they achieve "enlightenment", which they describe as a profoundly nihilist state of being). This whole idea of it being a casual activity that's good for the soul, or that it can make you a more effective person (on this plane of existence) is 1) new and 2) only modestly supported by the science.

It may hold some value, but it strikes me that there is more pro-meditation dogma than anti-. Scientists will hold an open mind, but "gurus" who charge money for fancy retreats will insist in its value without evidence. As a general rule, there are no panaceas - major changes in cognition can go either way. Be careful!

Re: Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety

#27

Post by 98Windows »

There are lots of ways to do "Mindfulness and meditation" so I'm not surprised.

I've always found group meditations to be the most beneficial for me while solo meditations are harder and less likely for me to feel better afterwards (although I've had some really good ones)

Re: Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety

#28

Post by silveroriole »

shekharshan wrote: post #11

I would be interested in finding out who funded the study and wouldn't be surprised with big-pharma behind it. I have been meditating for 7 years now. I would still consider myself an intermediate level meditator. It has literally re-programmed my mind. Having said that, I read the Pali Canon and follow instructions from Buddhist teachers all over the world.

> It has literally re-programmed my mind

How so? What’s different? I’ve never been able to get a clear explanation of the benefit of meditation.

Re: Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety

#29

Post by nabla9 »

r34 wrote: post #7

I've been practicing meditation for several years now. The phenomenon described in the article is very obvious to every practitioner - it can happen that for some time you will feel worse (actually I'm surprised that it's only 8%). It is related to psychological mechanisms of repression, which is weakened during meditation practices. That is why during serious meditation retreats (like 10 days vipassana) some people…

I just want to add that for some people the 'freak out' is psychosis, or other serious mental condition that needs immediate treatment.

There are many people who come into meditation to fix something because they have a sense that something is going wrong with them. Meditation has become very popular and there is strong incentive to avoid mentioning possible negatives. Then you just ship out damaged people from the back door and make them think it was their fault.

Meditation if practised as designed brings also negative mental states as part of the process. It's not just feel good hum-hum. People should seek professional mental help if they need and not to try some intensive meditation retreats that drive them into the walls.

I go to long meditation retreats regularly, but I don't recommend them to anyone. It's not the same for everyone. It can seriously harm some people.

Re: Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety

#30

Post by dtech »

dTal wrote: post #20
r34 wrote: post #7

I've been practicing meditation for several years now. The phenomenon described in the article is very obvious to every practitioner - it can happen that for some time you will feel worse (actually I'm surprised that it's only 8%). It is related to psychological mechanisms of repression, which is weakened during meditation practices. That is why during serious meditation retreats (like 10 days vipassana) some people…

>usually has positive effects in the long run Yeah, citation needed for that. Because "people often have meltdowns and need professional therapy" isn't really encouraging.

Note: I'm not a psychologist/psychiatrist. Afaik this is not unique for meditation, initially therapy sometimes has to focus a lot on "opening up", getting a person to talk and break down internal barriers, or repressed feelings. This leaves the person worse off for a while until the therapy can leave them better in the long term by dealing with these issues and emotions instead of just pushing them away.

I can imagine mediation and reflection can help with the opening up part, but some people really need a medical therapist to help them properly, so the warning seems sane.

It's like limping along on a badly healed broken leg. A doctor might have to break it again which will make it worse, but allow it to heal properly with good medical attention.

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