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Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

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Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would google fund a direct competitor unless they thought it was to their advantage? I don’t see how this helps Firefox Users.

Google’s business is search engine and advertising, not browser market share. Also helps with an anti-trust case.

If you don’t think Crome is a substantive part of google’s core business, I think we’re gonna talk past each other this whole time.

Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#22
This is completely anecdotal, and maybe I’m the only one, but native browsers have become so good that I’ve gone from decades of using Netscape/Firefox/opera/chrome/whatever to mainly using Edge and Safari. I don’t really need to share a profile between my browsers as I use windows at work and Mac/iOS for personal use.

We’ve gotten to a point in time where the browser is simply really good, and I think that simply makes it hard to make a living if your primary product is a browser.

Even Microsoft abandoned having their own because they no longer needed it to be completely their own to sell their products.

Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#23

Personally and strictly my own ignorant and informal opinion, Firefox and by extension Mozilla Corp. was doomed the moment it decided to compete with Chrome by being more like Chrome. Firefox built its userbase by being different than the dominant browser, then decided the only way to not die was to be exactly like the dominant browser except with less icky behind-the-scenes privacy behavior. That was a fundamental m…

The challenge with not competing with Chrome is that websites are now mostly developed with Chrome as the dev-tool. Even large companies are just optimizing for that one browser: https://thenextweb.com/dd/2017/11/28/please-build-websites-w... How many users are going to be willing to put up with stuff not working until they switch?

The Firefox bug report for a websocket message inspector was opened 7 years ago. It took 6 years before it got implemented.

Its no wonder they lost marketshare among developers.

Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#24

Revenue is secured. They have another deal with Google worth ~500M a year for the next few years. But for growing it and for the future of the browser that’s TBD imo

I really don't understand how that is not enough to fund Firefox and Servo for well over a decade.

The CEO needs those sweet bonuses that come from short-term revenue spikes.

But hey, she's not some homophobic bigot, so everything is good, and everyone should feel perfectly safe at the workplace as they are being downsized!

Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge with not competing with Chrome is that websites are now mostly developed with Chrome as the dev-tool. Even large companies are just optimizing for that one browser: https://thenextweb.com/dd/2017/11/28/please-build-websites-w... How many users are going to be willing to put up with stuff not working until they switch?

Functioning like Chrome in rendering and page features doesn't mean Firefox has to behave like Chrome in the UX. For example, why gut the ability of people to skin and customize their browser as they see fit? Why is Mozilla involved in a running battle against users who want the tabs below the address bar? Why entirely prevent us from sideloading extensions instead of letting us turn the ability on and off?

I guess that for the first two the answer is in part managing complexity

Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#26
I still don’t understand how they spend 500M a year with so little to show for it.

What’s the last innovation they dropped on the world? Nothing.

I still can’t copy urls From multiple selected tabs without an extension.

What we need is a group to step up, create a new browser, capture the 500M/year payday and put the money to work.

Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge with not competing with Chrome is that websites are now mostly developed with Chrome as the dev-tool. Even large companies are just optimizing for that one browser: https://thenextweb.com/dd/2017/11/28/please-build-websites-w... How many users are going to be willing to put up with stuff not working until they switch?

The Firefox bug report for a websocket message inspector was opened 7 years ago. It took 6 years before it got implemented. Its no wonder they lost marketshare among developers.

Agree with this sentiment 100% - it’s not better, it’s just less evil.

Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand how that is not enough to fund Firefox and Servo for well over a decade.

The CEO needs those sweet bonuses that come from short-term revenue spikes. But hey, she's not some homophobic bigot, so everything is good, and everyone should feel perfectly safe at the workplace as they are being downsized!

[deleted]

Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#29

Personally and strictly my own ignorant and informal opinion, Firefox and by extension Mozilla Corp. was doomed the moment it decided to compete with Chrome by being more like Chrome. Firefox built its userbase by being different than the dominant browser, then decided the only way to not die was to be exactly like the dominant browser except with less icky behind-the-scenes privacy behavior. That was a fundamental m…

25% seems like much too high a number for the group you’re talking about. I’d be interested to see some data on level of technical engagement and knowledge, but in my experience a large percentage of users don’t even have a clear idea of what a browser is.

The reason Firefox has lost market share in my opinion is because:

i) Chrome is pushed by Google.com, which has a near monopoly on search

ii) Chrome was bundled and installed alongside other software

iii) Chrome is built into Android and Chromebook

iv) Chrome has a huge advertising budget

And all of these factors combine to make Chrome feel like the default portal to the web.

Also for a period of time Chrome was undeniably a better, more stable browser. It’s only relatively recently with Electrolysis and Firefox Quantum that Firefox has regained a technical parity or superiority. And those changes depended on specifying a proper UI and Extension API which is the reason why the browser is no longer so customisable.

But Firefox Quantum only exists because of Servo, and vital parts of Servo (parallel layout in particular) have not been integrated into Firefox. It’s bizarre to see Mozilla sabotaging its long term chance at technical leadership not only by scrapping Servo but firing the engineers who built it.

I had an untechnical family member say unprompted last week they want to move away from Chrome but couldn’t use Firefox Mobile because it’s too slow. At the same moment Mozilla leadership was sacking its staff working on parallelising the browser engine.

Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#30

Personally and strictly my own ignorant and informal opinion, Firefox and by extension Mozilla Corp. was doomed the moment it decided to compete with Chrome by being more like Chrome. Firefox built its userbase by being different than the dominant browser, then decided the only way to not die was to be exactly like the dominant browser except with less icky behind-the-scenes privacy behavior. That was a fundamental m…

what was 25% ten years ago is closer to 5% now
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