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Paper Money with an Expiration Date

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Re: Paper Money with an Expiration Date

#21

Post by [deleted] »

kn100 wrote: post #6
antasvara wrote: post #2

What concerns me about his idea is that businesses would be less incentivized to take payments if your money was closer to expiration. This could lead to situations where my dollar is worth significantly less near expiration than someone else's dollar that just got stamped. In this respect, businesses get screwed because the money that they just accepted is slowly deflating in value. Expiring money basically incentiv…

I have not thought about this too much but what if the expiry date resets when it changes hands and there is some tx fee to discourage passing money around unnecessarily?

[deleted]

Re: Paper Money with an Expiration Date

#22

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

tharne wrote: post #12
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #11

Isn't most wealth hoarded in non-currency investments? How might this effect those?

yup, this type of "expiring money" would just lead people to store wealth elsewhere. You could argue that this has already happened with long term low interest rates. I think a big part of the continued stock market and real estate bubbles is that interest rates are so low that there's a real disincentive to store cash in the bank, so folks put their wealth into houses and stocks. Also, since when did "saving" become…

>when did "saving" become "hoarding"?

The systemic vaulting of fungibles (in the amount of scores of multiples beyond reasonable needs) may result in the same outcomes as hoarding does.

Re: Paper Money with an Expiration Date

#23

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

tharne wrote: post #12
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #11

Isn't most wealth hoarded in non-currency investments? How might this effect those?

yup, this type of "expiring money" would just lead people to store wealth elsewhere. You could argue that this has already happened with long term low interest rates. I think a big part of the continued stock market and real estate bubbles is that interest rates are so low that there's a real disincentive to store cash in the bank, so folks put their wealth into houses and stocks. Also, since when did "saving" become…

> Our goal should not be incentivizing people to spend money as quickly as they make it.

I think wise societal goals would be those that clearly and consistently lead to increased funds for people in non-upper classes.

Re: Paper Money with an Expiration Date

#24

Post by tharne »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #22
tharne wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yup, this type of "expiring money" would just lead people to store wealth elsewhere. You could argue that this has already happened with long term low interest rates. I think a big part of the continued stock market and real estate bubbles is that interest rates are so low that there's a real disincentive to store cash in the bank, so folks put their wealth into houses and stocks. Also, since when did "saving" become…

>when did "saving" become "hoarding"? The systemic vaulting of fungibles (in the amount of scores of multiples beyond reasonable needs) may result in the same outcomes as hoarding does.

I don't think any one of us is in an intellectual or moral position to dictate what another person's "reasonable needs" are.

Re: Paper Money with an Expiration Date

#25

Post by dnautics »

JohnDeHope wrote: post #16

If people know when the money will expire, they'll accept it at a lower and lower value as it approaches its expiration. Money that will expire tomorrow will be worthless. I think a better way would be to continually reduce all (digital) accounts by some rate. Say you want 1% depreciation per year. At the end of the year, every bank account balance is multiplied by x0.99. The "money" evaporates equally for everyone a…

They probably won't notice, since that's what happens now. Not even smart people with econ phds notice.

But whether or not anyone notices, the math is simple: it will be very bad for lower income levels. If you have 1% depreciation over a year, and you are spending 90% of your money on day to day expenses, the relative loss in margin of survival is far worse than if you are spending 20% on day to day expenses.

Re: Paper Money with an Expiration Date

#26

Post by goldcd »

kn100 wrote: post #6
antasvara wrote: post #2

What concerns me about his idea is that businesses would be less incentivized to take payments if your money was closer to expiration. This could lead to situations where my dollar is worth significantly less near expiration than someone else's dollar that just got stamped. In this respect, businesses get screwed because the money that they just accepted is slowly deflating in value. Expiring money basically incentiv…

I have not thought about this too much but what if the expiry date resets when it changes hands and there is some tx fee to discourage passing money around unnecessarily?

I quite like that idea.

If you receive a dollar and pay tax on it due to the work you undertook to receive it, it gets 'refreshed' and increases in value.

If you get a 'stale dollar' (e.g. gifted from a parent) it depreciates until you use it constructively.

If you're an advocate of "trickle-down" economics, you should be lapping this us, as it's rewarding people for what you believe already happens.

Of course a much simpler approach would be to simply flip the outrageously stupid system most of us have, where income from passive investments is taxed at a lower rate than income from providing work.

Re: Paper Money with an Expiration Date

#27

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

tharne wrote: post #24
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>when did "saving" become "hoarding"? The systemic vaulting of fungibles (in the amount of scores of multiples beyond reasonable needs) may result in the same outcomes as hoarding does.

I don't think any one of us is in an intellectual or moral position to dictate what another person's "reasonable needs" are.

Ah. Trying to leverage a tangent into a tool to invalidate the overall point on a technicality.

A bold move.

Re: Paper Money with an Expiration Date

#28

Post by ornornor »

kn100 wrote: post #6
antasvara wrote: post #2

What concerns me about his idea is that businesses would be less incentivized to take payments if your money was closer to expiration. This could lead to situations where my dollar is worth significantly less near expiration than someone else's dollar that just got stamped. In this respect, businesses get screwed because the money that they just accepted is slowly deflating in value. Expiring money basically incentiv…

I have not thought about this too much but what if the expiry date resets when it changes hands and there is some tx fee to discourage passing money around unnecessarily?

Isn’t this essentially what interest rates are for?
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