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C's 'while' is spelled 'for' in Go

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Re: C's 'while' is spelled 'for' in Go

#21

Post by Lammy »

saghm wrote: post #14
laurencerowe wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's kind of sad that "for" is the keyword programming languages settled on for the loop construct. Many languages only use `for` to mean a for-each style loop where it reads quite naturally: Python - `for n in range(1,10)` Ruby - `for i in 0..10` Rust - `for n in 1..10` (also picked up the bare `loop`) Others support for-each style loops along with the less than ideal C-style for loop: JavaScript - `for (n of [1,2…

Interestingly, the more common way to write that in Ruby would be `(1..10).each { |i| ... }`, or (in the case of needing a multi-line block): ``` (1..10).each do |i| ... end ``` "do" does end up getting used, but only as syntax for a "block" (similar to what other languages would call a lambda). Ruby also has a shorthand for when you want to do something `n` times without caring about the iteration number: ``` 10.tim…

You can kinda use `do` for looping with a Block and Kernel#loop :v https://ruby-doc.org/core-2.7.1/Kernel.html#method-i-loop

Re: C's 'while' is spelled 'for' in Go

#23

Post by harry8 »

willcipriano wrote: post #20
UIZealot wrote: post #4

It's kind of sad that "for" is the keyword programming languages settled on for the loop construct. Ever since its counterpart "do" was dropped from the for-statement, it's just been utterly nonsensical. I mean how on earth does the word "for" convey a loop? With the recently designed languages like Go and Swift taking so many cues from the Pascal side of the ALGOL language family, how nobody thought to pick up "repe…

Python's "for customer in customers" can't be clearer in my opinion.

"for each customer in customers"

is how you'd say that in plain english. Some languages do use foreach as a keyword echoing that.

Re: C's 'while' is spelled 'for' in Go

#24

Post by ggggtez »

UIZealot wrote: post #4

It's kind of sad that "for" is the keyword programming languages settled on for the loop construct. Ever since its counterpart "do" was dropped from the for-statement, it's just been utterly nonsensical. I mean how on earth does the word "for" convey a loop? With the recently designed languages like Go and Swift taking so many cues from the Pascal side of the ALGOL language family, how nobody thought to pick up "repe…

While we're being pedantic, "do" is a terrible keyword. I mean, everything in an imperitive program is a request to "do" something.

And "do ... while(x)" is a terrible construct because it hides the loop complexity far from the place where a programmer needs to see it.

Re: C's 'while' is spelled 'for' in Go

#25

Post by ggggtez »

UIZealot wrote: post #12
SilasX wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was just one way of phrasing it. You could just as easily put it as, "For every piece of cooking equipment, clean it and put it away."

There you need the word "every" to convey that it's a loop. I'd certainly agree that "for each" is much better than "for" alone.

"Do your homework" doesn't imply a loop either. Nor does "This could take a while"

It should not be a shock that the english language doesn't naturally have a single word that can express both a condition/duration as well as a command without any other helper words.

Do is superfluous. Everything in an imperative program is a request to do something.

Re: C's 'while' is spelled 'for' in Go

#26

Post by renewiltord »

UIZealot wrote: post #4

It's kind of sad that "for" is the keyword programming languages settled on for the loop construct. Ever since its counterpart "do" was dropped from the for-statement, it's just been utterly nonsensical. I mean how on earth does the word "for" convey a loop? With the recently designed languages like Go and Swift taking so many cues from the Pascal side of the ALGOL language family, how nobody thought to pick up "repe…

Wish they'd called it `grob` and called `return` `bolver` so that we can accept they're just syntactic constructs instead of pointlessly assuming meaning from what are just syntactic constructs.

    sum = 0
    grob (i=0; i
Brilliant.

Re: C's 'while' is spelled 'for' in Go

#27

Post by ChrisRR »

renewiltord wrote: post #26
UIZealot wrote: post #4

It's kind of sad that "for" is the keyword programming languages settled on for the loop construct. Ever since its counterpart "do" was dropped from the for-statement, it's just been utterly nonsensical. I mean how on earth does the word "for" convey a loop? With the recently designed languages like Go and Swift taking so many cues from the Pascal side of the ALGOL language family, how nobody thought to pick up "repe…

Wish they'd called it `grob` and called `return` `bolver` so that we can accept they're just syntactic constructs instead of pointlessly assuming meaning from what are just syntactic constructs. sum = 0 grob (i=0; i Brilliant.

I feel like this is what learning to program is like when english isn't your first language

Re: C's 'while' is spelled 'for' in Go

#28

Post by kryth »

ChrisRR wrote: post #27
renewiltord wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wish they'd called it `grob` and called `return` `bolver` so that we can accept they're just syntactic constructs instead of pointlessly assuming meaning from what are just syntactic constructs. sum = 0 grob (i=0; i Brilliant.

I feel like this is what learning to program is like when english isn't your first language

Oh man, trust me, by the time you start programming, you'll have already studied English. There's no way around it since non-English documentation is miserable at best.

Re: C's 'while' is spelled 'for' in Go

#29

Post by UIZealot »

ggggtez wrote: post #25
UIZealot wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There you need the word "every" to convey that it's a loop. I'd certainly agree that "for each" is much better than "for" alone.

" Do your homework" doesn't imply a loop either. Nor does "This could take a while " It should not be a shock that the english language doesn't naturally have a single word that can express both a condition/duration as well as a command without any other helper words. Do is superfluous. Everything in an imperative program is a request to do something.

> "Do your homework" doesn't imply a loop either.

But "for these subjects, do your home work" does.

> Nor does "This could take a while"

I never claimed that "while" alone is any better.

> It should not be a shock that the english language doesn't naturally have a single word that can express both a condition/duration as well as a command without any other helper words.

I never asked for a magic word. To the contrary, I was lamenting the lost of the helper word "do", making the "for" alone nonsensical.

> Do is superfluous. Everything in an imperative program is a request to do something.

I disagree. I think "for...do" makes things much clearer than "for" alone.

Re: C's 'while' is spelled 'for' in Go

#30

Post by boomlinde »

ggggtez wrote: post #24
UIZealot wrote: post #4

It's kind of sad that "for" is the keyword programming languages settled on for the loop construct. Ever since its counterpart "do" was dropped from the for-statement, it's just been utterly nonsensical. I mean how on earth does the word "for" convey a loop? With the recently designed languages like Go and Swift taking so many cues from the Pascal side of the ALGOL language family, how nobody thought to pick up "repe…

While we're being pedantic, "do" is a terrible keyword. I mean, everything in an imperitive program is a request to "do" something. And "do ... while(x)" is a terrible construct because it hides the loop complexity far from the place where a programmer needs to see it.

The condition of a C-like do/while loop is exactly where the programmer needs to see it: where it's evaluated. Same with the plain while loop.
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