Seems bold considering China’s firewall and all the US social media and chat apps it’s banned.
"China does it too" is not as strong argument as it sounds.
TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday
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Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday
#22I'd start the questioning like this... "On an average day how many kids under 13 do you think join TikTok without their parents knowledge?" "On an average day, how many teens under 18 and preteens dance in a manner that would be considered provocative on your platform?"
If the reason for banning TikTok is to "protect the kids" why not say so in the order, instead of using some vague "national security" excuse? Clearly the TikTok ban had nothing to do with young kids using it or dancing provocatively, and the administration clearly isn't thinking about the kids when the ban was ordered.
Trump is saying he is likely going to issue an executive order to extend unemployment due to national security.
You don't think he would do the same for TikTok, especially when all these underage and often preteen kids data is being sent to China?
Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
You realize US presidents have imposed embargo via executive orders against nations for decades right? Cuba? Huawei? Whether you think it's right or wrong, legally, it has prescient.
That's not what he means. They consistently pass exec orders that at the core would be legal, if they allowed for due process, but they rush it or are incompetent so they get overturned. In this case, the order bans any US citizen from doing business with ByteDance, and doesn't make a carve out for retaining a US lawyer, which is a violation of due process and means a judge could overturn the order. If they just adde…
There is no requirement that US based lawyers must be US citizens.
Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
Might be a good political argument but not a legal one.
The legal argument is much more clear though. The US can impose embargo via executive order. Keep in mind Australia dropped Huawei over security concerns for their national broadband network back in 2012. China is a totalitarian regime that suppresses speech and is reeducating an entire ethnic group, possibly even forcing them into factory jobs.
Saudi Arabia is also a totalitarian regime. It suppresses speech, executes citizens prejudicially and extrajudicially even outside their own borders, arrests and charges women's rights activists of treason, dozens of executions by beheading of non-violent drug offenders per year, human rights activists are arrested and imprisoned without trial, and so on.
Maybe we should just stop doing business with Saudi Arabia too, is that your point? No more Saudi Arabia oil for the U.S. or even all of the western world? In fact they're still treated as a U.S. ally.
Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
The legal argument is much more clear though. The US can impose embargo via executive order. Keep in mind Australia dropped Huawei over security concerns for their national broadband network back in 2012. China is a totalitarian regime that suppresses speech and is reeducating an entire ethnic group, possibly even forcing them into factory jobs.
If you read the article, they are also contesting the fact the order was rushed and bans ByteDance from retaining US lawyers once the ban is in effect, which is a violation of due process. So the legal argument from ByteDance actually has merit in that respect, regardless of the political debate.
> bans ByteDance from retaining US lawyers once the ban is in effect, which is a violation of due process
To counter the parent’s comment, this sounds like something a totalitarian state would do
Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday
#26Completely expected. Trump doesn’t really have a good track record in coming up with legal executive orders, while Tiktok is completely in their rights to contest this order. And...judicial review is what sets the USA apart from China.
You realize US presidents have imposed embargo via executive orders against nations for decades right? Cuba? Huawei? Whether you think it's right or wrong, legally, it has prescient.
The argument is that those presidents were generally smarter and more capable then Trump. Their executive orders were actually legal or if dubious, they were illegal in way that practically passed.
Trump does not seem to posses that ability. His strengths in in completely different areas.
Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
The legal argument is much more clear though. The US can impose embargo via executive order. Keep in mind Australia dropped Huawei over security concerns for their national broadband network back in 2012. China is a totalitarian regime that suppresses speech and is reeducating an entire ethnic group, possibly even forcing them into factory jobs.
Saudi Arabia is also a totalitarian regime. It suppresses speech, executes citizens prejudicially and extrajudicially even outside their own borders, arrests and charges women's rights activists of treason, dozens of executions by beheading of non-violent drug offenders per year, human rights activists are arrested and imprisoned without trial, and so on. Maybe we should just stop doing business with Saudi Arabia too…
I wish I could upvote this 1000 times
Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not what he means. They consistently pass exec orders that at the core would be legal, if they allowed for due process, but they rush it or are incompetent so they get overturned. In this case, the order bans any US citizen from doing business with ByteDance, and doesn't make a carve out for retaining a US lawyer, which is a violation of due process and means a judge could overturn the order. If they just adde…
There is no requirement that US based lawyers must be US citizens.
There is very much a constitutional requirement that the government can't tell you you can't have the lawyer you want because they are a US citizen. That's a clear violation of the 14th amendment right to due process...
Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday
#29I support TikTok in this matter. I'm not comfortable with the United States banning companies. We should strive to be the best place on earth to do business in. We are an open country and we benefit from being open. We benefit from competition.
If I'm afraid China is taking my personal information, it's up to me, the consumer, to delete the app. It's up to Apple to design APIs to prevent real theft of such things as passwords left on your clipboard, or location data.
Many people will point to the fact that TikTok is controlled by a single party, the CCP, and may push various points of view. I don't see how that is different than Twitter whose employees give to the Democrats at a North Korean level of popular support [1] (99.8% of political gifts given to non GOP candidates). Twitter famously shadow ban conservatives, cause liberal ideas to "trend", and push a political agenda even if I'm there just for technology news.
Again, comparing TikTok to Twitter, when I load TikTok I see music videos and no politics. When I load Twitter I see riots, violence and people complaining about Trump (24/7 365). It's like looking into the depths of the abyss. Twitter provides a platform for countries to threaten one another, for example Iran threatens Israel on its platform. TikTok provides a platform to make music videos. How is again Twitter superior?
One other point, I wish to make is the way we are handling the transfer of TikTok to Microsoft. We are literally taking TikTok's business and giving it to Microsoft with a "Big fee" paid to the Federal Government. Considering China's history, this will offend them. What if they did the same thing to us? What if they did not trust Apple's business in China? What if they stole Apple's Chinese business, and gave it to Tencent with a fee paid to the CCP?
TikTok is a major accomplishment because it's the first US top rated social network not designed in the United States. This is something to be celebrated and a cause to inspire us to compete to make something even better. Taking it, transferring it or banning it is not the way to go.
[1] https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/individual-contributions/?...
Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
The legal argument is much more clear though. The US can impose embargo via executive order. Keep in mind Australia dropped Huawei over security concerns for their national broadband network back in 2012. China is a totalitarian regime that suppresses speech and is reeducating an entire ethnic group, possibly even forcing them into factory jobs.
Saudi Arabia is also a totalitarian regime. It suppresses speech, executes citizens prejudicially and extrajudicially even outside their own borders, arrests and charges women's rights activists of treason, dozens of executions by beheading of non-violent drug offenders per year, human rights activists are arrested and imprisoned without trial, and so on. Maybe we should just stop doing business with Saudi Arabia too…
Yes, we absolutely should stop doing any business with both Saudi Arabia and China, both of which are brutal murderous totalitarian regimes.
Failing that, however, considering the two options for global social networks are precisely limited to
a) there are no global social networks b) there are global social networks but only ones that are directly controlled by the CCP
I'm pretty alright with a).