2021 will be the year of T-cells given this news and the continued growth of CAR-T therapy
A T Cell Army against SARS-CoV-2
21–30 of 32 posts
Re: A T Cell Army against SARS-CoV-2
#22I'm not a virologist or anything close, but reading this it seems like definitely good news? If I am understanding it right, it's saying many people already have T-cells from common colds that can to some extent recognise Covid-19, and those that have had Covid, even a mild case, have T-cells that seem to last quite a while.
Also, I am not a virologist, but this is a common phenomenon known as viral interference.
Re: A T Cell Army against SARS-CoV-2
#23I'm not a virologist or anything close, but reading this it seems like definitely good news? If I am understanding it right, it's saying many people already have T-cells from common colds that can to some extent recognise Covid-19, and those that have had Covid, even a mild case, have T-cells that seem to last quite a while.
Yes, this confirms what a few people have been trying to say, that we do have some form of prior immunity, it's not a novel virus in that everyone is 100% susceptible, and that anti body tests won't show up prevalence. In addition means we need a lower rate for herd immunity, if we haven't already got it in some places like New York and London. So the models of exponential growth was unfounded and it follows more a n…
I don't see what your point is. Gompertz is just one type of a logistic function. A first year epidemiology course covers them saying that they model most outbreaks and you have example exercises with them where you learn how to calculate things like when will 1m people be infected. One way to think about them is that they have two phases, the first dominated by an exponential curve and the second by a logarithmic. This might be what you are confusing.
Re: A T Cell Army against SARS-CoV-2
#24So is anybody floating the crazy idea of giving every reasonably healthy person a dose of the common cold as a poor man's vaccine?
Some people want to start giving out Oral Polio Vaccine (OPV) because it kicks the immune system into action. It is very safe, if you have already had a polio vaccine. I believe it has been shown that OPV reduced seasonal flu in areas where it was distributed. https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6496/1187
Most vaccines come with an 'adjuvant' [1] that activates the immune system in order to encourage the development of antibodies.
Sometimes these are chunks of toxins that your body recognizes a toxic, but without the actual part of the toxin that causes the toxicity. A kind of flag but without the army behind it.
Re: A T Cell Army against SARS-CoV-2
#252021 will be the year of T-cells given this news and the continued growth of CAR-T therapy
agreed
Re: A T Cell Army against SARS-CoV-2
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In addition means we need a lower rate for herd immunity No, it actually doesn't, the math functions differently than what is naively believed. See: https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2020/08/03/math-error... The R0 would have to be corrected to the higher value, which would mean that the herd immunity threshold for the susceptible part of population would have to be higher(!) Also, even among completely asympt…
That maths you link to literally says that the threshold for herd immunity among the entire population is indeed lowered. And that was the original posters point. I think you're getting too caught up in the details. Its still good news, and it still means that herd immunity is easier and faster to achieve
> Its still good news, and it still means that herd immunity is easier and faster to achieve
It is not even clear it's "good news", it doesn't "still mean" at all, read carefully under "Edit 2" of my parent post. It can also mean that it will take longer. R0 must be reevaluated, and threshold is f(R0). We don't even know the "correct" function for the threshold, even less which people contribute in which way. We don't know how much were infected up to now, the high numbers weren't random samples, prevalence in global population is much lower than in a few hot spots where a lot of deaths happened. "Math is hard." Immunology is complex.
Re: A T Cell Army against SARS-CoV-2
#27I'm not a virologist or anything close, but reading this it seems like definitely good news? If I am understanding it right, it's saying many people already have T-cells from common colds that can to some extent recognise Covid-19, and those that have had Covid, even a mild case, have T-cells that seem to last quite a while.
Yes, this confirms what a few people have been trying to say, that we do have some form of prior immunity, it's not a novel virus in that everyone is 100% susceptible, and that anti body tests won't show up prevalence. In addition means we need a lower rate for herd immunity, if we haven't already got it in some places like New York and London. So the models of exponential growth was unfounded and it follows more a n…
" In addition means we need a lower rate for herd immunity"
It's like you didn't even read the article. At MOST, it means we MIGHT need a lower rate for herd immunity.
Re: A T Cell Army against SARS-CoV-2
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In addition means we need a lower rate for herd immunity No, it actually doesn't, the math functions differently than what is naively believed. See: https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2020/08/03/math-error... The R0 would have to be corrected to the higher value, which would mean that the herd immunity threshold for the susceptible part of population would have to be higher(!) Also, even among completely asympt…
That maths you link to literally says that the threshold for herd immunity among the entire population is indeed lowered. And that was the original posters point. I think you're getting too caught up in the details. Its still good news, and it still means that herd immunity is easier and faster to achieve
"That maths you link to literally says that the threshold for herd immunity among the entire population is indeed lowered. "
The maths you refer to do not make that judgment at all. They indicate that, assuming all the assumptions that go into those models are true (they aren't), herd immunity may be lowered, but not by much.
Re: A T Cell Army against SARS-CoV-2
#29So is anybody floating the crazy idea of giving every reasonably healthy person a dose of the common cold as a poor man's vaccine?
Some people want to start giving out Oral Polio Vaccine (OPV) because it kicks the immune system into action. It is very safe, if you have already had a polio vaccine. I believe it has been shown that OPV reduced seasonal flu in areas where it was distributed. https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6496/1187
Your link refers to the following clinical trials for BCG, running since March:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04327206
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04328441
It seems there are no current clinical trials for OPV, just that author arguing that such trial could be started (first time in April).
BTW, looking at how polio manifested, it really is a good example about what viruses are able to do, and why only counting "dead" (as in CFR or whatever) misses the point:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/covid-19-is-threaten...
"Polio often destroyed nerve cells that controlled muscles, leaving some with paralyzed limbs or lungs."
Re: A T Cell Army against SARS-CoV-2
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, this confirms what a few people have been trying to say, that we do have some form of prior immunity, it's not a novel virus in that everyone is 100% susceptible, and that anti body tests won't show up prevalence. In addition means we need a lower rate for herd immunity, if we haven't already got it in some places like New York and London. So the models of exponential growth was unfounded and it follows more a n…
Not quite. Carl Bergstrom had a good thread on this. Basically, we saw a certain rate of growth. If this rate of growth happened despite half the population having T cell immunity, then it means the R0 must be higher than we thought, and therefore the herd immunity threshold in the susceptible population rises. You do get a somewhat lower overall herd immunity threshold, but less than you thought. https://twitter.com…
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