Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#21

Post by lightgreen » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 2:08 AM UTC

faitswulff wrote: post #9

I'd almost rather flag this submission than deal with commenters seeking to justify the structural iniquities and ending their train of thought with the simple correlation between black neighborhoods and crime. Press on! Why is there more crime? Why is there more poverty? What are the structural reasons for the two?

What do you think the structural reasons are?

> I'd almost rather flag this submission than deal with commenters seeking

That approach worries me. People are discussing trying to figure out what’s going on. It is not hate or spam. Some make mistakes. Some opinions you might disagree with or even don’t like. If you don’t want to participate, then don’t. But why trying to block others from discussing the issue?

These attempts to block free speech are very worrisome. Let’s keep at least hn free from rightthink moderation.

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#22

Post by anamexis » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 2:14 AM UTC

underpand wrote: post #8

I'm disappointed that they didn't look at the very obvious input into insurance risk models: crime rate. It's very dishonest since it's very obvious. Either complete incompetence or dishonesty.

I think jbarciauskas said this better than I can, but how is it at all dishonest? Yes, there may be specific inputs that cause these rates to be what they are, and those inputs may be obvious. But the conclusion seems equally obvious, and perfectly honest: insurance costs more in Black neighborhoods. Acknowledging the inputs only makes a stronger argument for institutionalized racism.

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#23

Post by lilbaine » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 2:15 AM UTC

Why was this post flagged?

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#24

Post by lightgreen » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 2:17 AM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #17

spacephysics wrote: post #3

“ So, there’s definitely more work to be done – but we thought it’s important to make a best effort with the messy data we have to start the discussion.” This contradicts the title of the article. The title implies the insurance is increased due to racial reasons, rather than it happens that in some communities that are more prone to theft/criminality, the population for those insurance areas are black. I find it har…

I agree that this is an important distinction. But isn't there a third option: the market's not perfectly competitive and pricing isn't just driven by the cost but also what consumers will bear? For example, this can be seen in men's vs. women's home staples. Things like razors and deodorant tend to have much higher list price for their feminine versions. This isn't because women's razors cost more to make. Nor is it…

> Women tend to be burdened with more responsibilities than men, and thus have less time to carefully comparison shop.

Or maybe because women care more about brands and men just pick what’s cheaper. Or maybe because men need smaller variety of options. Or maybe because men consume more razors per store visitor. Or maybe because men spend less time in stores per dollar spent and selling for men is cheaper. Or a dozen other reasons.

That claim about women responsibilities is very simplistic and likely wrong. Unless you have some data to confirm you pr statement, share please if you have.

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#25

Post by Frost1x » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 2:17 AM UTC

faitswulff wrote: post #9

I'd almost rather flag this submission than deal with commenters seeking to justify the structural iniquities and ending their train of thought with the simple correlation between black neighborhoods and crime. Press on! Why is there more crime? Why is there more poverty? What are the structural reasons for the two?

People tend to think of only 1st order effects. They don't tend to think in 2nd, 3rd, ..., nth order effects--not that it's easy to quantify the effects, but it's usually not difficult to see/imagine those potential relationships.

This is why a lot of rhetoric in general is so effective: it prays on focusing on simple first order effects instead of attempting to look at issues holistically. I'm not saying hollistic analysis is simple--far from it--but one needs to be aware that life is really complex with a awhole lot of gray areas.

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#26

Post by TMWNN » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 2:20 AM UTC

usaar333 wrote: post #15

As far as I can tell, Goodcover wrote this as marketing to show that they both have less increased pricing bias toward neighborhoods that are more Black -- and also are significantly cheaper. It's the significantly cheaper that is most surprising to me. They are about $100 a year vs. $175 a year for their competitions. This makes me wonder -- have they managed to cut bloat by 40% or are they simply using different qu…

>It's the significantly cheaper that is most surprising to me. They are about $100 a year vs. $175 a year for their competitions.

I pay Goodcover $72/year for renters insurance, versus $148/year for a comparable policy from Liberty Mutual obtained less than three months earlier,

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#27

Post by lilbaine » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 2:21 AM UTC

lightgreen wrote: post #21

faitswulff wrote: post #9

I'd almost rather flag this submission than deal with commenters seeking to justify the structural iniquities and ending their train of thought with the simple correlation between black neighborhoods and crime. Press on! Why is there more crime? Why is there more poverty? What are the structural reasons for the two?

What do you think the structural reasons are? > I'd almost rather flag this submission than deal with commenters seeking That approach worries me. People are discussing trying to figure out what’s going on. It is not hate or spam. Some make mistakes. Some opinions you might disagree with or even don’t like. If you don’t want to participate, then don’t. But why trying to block others from discussing the issue? These a…

Agreed

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#28

Post by faitswulff » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 2:25 AM UTC

lightgreen wrote: post #21

faitswulff wrote: post #9

I'd almost rather flag this submission than deal with commenters seeking to justify the structural iniquities and ending their train of thought with the simple correlation between black neighborhoods and crime. Press on! Why is there more crime? Why is there more poverty? What are the structural reasons for the two?

What do you think the structural reasons are? > I'd almost rather flag this submission than deal with commenters seeking That approach worries me. People are discussing trying to figure out what’s going on. It is not hate or spam. Some make mistakes. Some opinions you might disagree with or even don’t like. If you don’t want to participate, then don’t. But why trying to block others from discussing the issue? These a…

It's already been flagged, that's why. It's inevitable. Anything to do with race gets flagged mindlessly on HN.

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#29

Post by rbecker » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 2:54 AM UTC

jbarciauskas wrote: post #19

There are a lot of replies here asking about correlation with non-racial factors such as economics or crime. The fact of the matter is that Blacks in America are poorer, suffer higher rates of unemployment, lower educational attainment and are forced to live in higher crime areas as the result of decades of racist housing policies and centuries of oppression. This is reflecting that legacy. Black people pay many diff…

> Blacks in America are poorer, suffer higher rates of unemployment, lower educational attainment and are forced to live in higher crime areas as the result of decades of racist housing policies and centuries of oppression.

How do they fare in other countries, with different histories?

Edit: Expanded the question to make it clearer.

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#30

Post by rubyfan » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 2:55 AM UTC

TMWNN wrote: post #26

usaar333 wrote: post #15

As far as I can tell, Goodcover wrote this as marketing to show that they both have less increased pricing bias toward neighborhoods that are more Black -- and also are significantly cheaper. It's the significantly cheaper that is most surprising to me. They are about $100 a year vs. $175 a year for their competitions. This makes me wonder -- have they managed to cut bloat by 40% or are they simply using different qu…

>It's the significantly cheaper that is most surprising to me. They are about $100 a year vs. $175 a year for their competitions. I pay Goodcover $72/year for renters insurance, versus $148/year for a comparable policy from Liberty Mutual obtained less than three months earlier,

many insurance companies have minimum premiums around $100-140 per year for renters depending on their OIE. renter is usually fairly simplistic in terms of its segmentation. a persons insurance score is small part of that, coverage limits like liability and contents coverage will drive cost but also geography will price perils like theft and weather perils (the later should be light since renters is really just contents and liability). so you’d expect geography for renters to be somewhat of a larger influence. it’s unlikely any insurance carrier is specifically pricing to penalize for the color of your skin. it is probable though that there are some correlation with something else they are pricing for.