Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison • Hacker News Board

Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#21

Post by ced » Tue, Aug 04, 2020, 10:57 AM UTC

xondono wrote: post #15

I've been very interested in the behavioural economics field in general, but for some reason I always find that Ariely tends to jump too fast to conclusions. Most of his experiments I read about have other explanations that fit the data just as well. For instance, the "The Economist" subscription has another explanation to simple comparison, choice deferral . People don't really know if they'll want the online or pri…

I don't get your argument. Those who are in "choice deferral" and chose online+print in the first experiment ought to have picked the same in the second experiment, but they didn't.

Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#22

Post by kashyapc » Tue, Aug 04, 2020, 11:08 AM UTC

2T1Qka0rEiPr wrote: post #2

I read Ariely's "Predictably Irrational" years and years ago, and was fascinated by it. I'd been an economics graduate, and was surprised that we were only introduced to "Behavioural Economics" as a field in the final semester of the course. To be sure, if you want to read far more academic material, you should look at Kahneman, Sunstein or Thaler's books - but Ariely's writing style is in my opinion more fun and app…

About 10 years ago, I too, as a newbie-layman, started with "Predictably Irrational". I recall being similarly fascinated, and recommending it to anyone who'd listen to me. It's surely a gentler start to the field; and I concur with you on suggestions for deeper material.

Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#23

Post by xondono » Tue, Aug 04, 2020, 11:44 AM UTC

ced wrote: post #21

xondono wrote: post #15

I've been very interested in the behavioural economics field in general, but for some reason I always find that Ariely tends to jump too fast to conclusions. Most of his experiments I read about have other explanations that fit the data just as well. For instance, the "The Economist" subscription has another explanation to simple comparison, choice deferral . People don't really know if they'll want the online or pri…

I don't get your argument. Those who are in "choice deferral" and chose online+print in the first experiment ought to have picked the same in the second experiment, but they didn't.

If you make me chose right now between online and print, I need to think which of those suits me better, will I read on my phone? Would I rather have the physical thing and have some rest time from the screens?

If there’s an easy to pick offer bundling the two, I’d rather pay the extra to keep the choice open, that is, to choose later.

Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#24

Post by nojito » Tue, Aug 04, 2020, 11:56 AM UTC

noelwelsh wrote: post #4

I think it is worth noting that some of the more surprising results in the behavioural economics literature have failed to replicate. A quick search will find many articles discussing this. I believe there is definitely a strong core in behavioural economics, but the especially "pop science" experiments (e.g. people walk more slowly when primed to think about old age, which IIRC is in "Thinking Fast and Slow") should…

This always gets mentioned and upvoted to the top but there has really only been one priming experiment that has been discredited.

Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#25

Post by nate » Tue, Aug 04, 2020, 12:28 PM UTC

If you're a fan of Dan's, I just realized recently he has a board game out! https://irrationalgame.com

Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#26

Post by beefield » Tue, Aug 04, 2020, 12:49 PM UTC

sprafa wrote: post #16

2T1Qka0rEiPr wrote: post #2

I read Ariely's "Predictably Irrational" years and years ago, and was fascinated by it. I'd been an economics graduate, and was surprised that we were only introduced to "Behavioural Economics" as a field in the final semester of the course. To be sure, if you want to read far more academic material, you should look at Kahneman, Sunstein or Thaler's books - but Ariely's writing style is in my opinion more fun and app…

Charlie Munger said "if economics isn't behavioral, what the hell is it?"

A weird bastard child of ideology and mathematics.

Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#27

Post by kwhitefoot » Tue, Aug 04, 2020, 12:49 PM UTC

There is nothing irrational in seeing the right hand orange circle as bigger. It even says so in the text: "depends on context". The word irrational in the tile is just clickbait.

Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#28

Post by mekoka » Tue, Aug 04, 2020, 12:52 PM UTC

xondono wrote: post #15

I've been very interested in the behavioural economics field in general, but for some reason I always find that Ariely tends to jump too fast to conclusions. Most of his experiments I read about have other explanations that fit the data just as well. For instance, the "The Economist" subscription has another explanation to simple comparison, choice deferral . People don't really know if they'll want the online or pri…

Regarding choice deferral, perhaps you should take another closer look at that experiment. It seems to me that you may have missed the fact that the choice that was taken away is not "online + print", but rather "print only", which yielded 0 subscribers in the original batch.

Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#29

Post by ghaff » Tue, Aug 04, 2020, 1:24 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #17

nostromo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure I want the government opting me in to programs any more than I want Google opting me in to things that may not be in my best interest. If dark patterns start working their way into government, god help us all.

In setting defaults, you’re always making a choice. “By default, all drivers will not be marked as organ donors.” vs “By default, all drivers will be marked as organ donors.” “By default, all employees at companies with 401(k)s will save X% of their eligible salary in 401(k)s.” You’re making a choice for them in any event.

I agree with you but we also need to be careful given how powerful defaults are. Even Thaler has, I believe, argued against organ donation being opt out; rather I think he's argued for requiring a yes/no choice when driver's licenses are renewed. (The argument is opt out would lead to next of kin/families arguing that the deceased never made a choice to donate.)

Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#30

Post by ghaff » Tue, Aug 04, 2020, 1:59 PM UTC

kashyapc wrote: post #22

2T1Qka0rEiPr wrote: post #2

I read Ariely's "Predictably Irrational" years and years ago, and was fascinated by it. I'd been an economics graduate, and was surprised that we were only introduced to "Behavioural Economics" as a field in the final semester of the course. To be sure, if you want to read far more academic material, you should look at Kahneman, Sunstein or Thaler's books - but Ariely's writing style is in my opinion more fun and app…

About 10 years ago, I too, as a newbie-layman, started with "Predictably Irrational". I recall being similarly fascinated, and recommending it to anyone who'd listen to me. It's surely a gentler start to the field; and I concur with you on suggestions for deeper material.

Nudge is pretty easy reading from Thaler and Sunstein. Personally tough, I preferred his Misbehaving which goes into his history with the field. Way back when, I had a couple courses with Thaler when he was calling the field Behavioural Decision Theory.