Live data from Hacker News

Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built

buzzfeednews.com

21–30 of 224 posts

Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built

#21
post #7

I feel like all of this debate is painfully missing the point. The problem is not some content moderation policy, the problem is that social media has changed social conversations from small local interactions into monstrous virtual fight clubs between millions of people simultaneously, and where the most extreme opinions are rewarded with the most attention. Boring level headed opinions used to at least have a chanc…

"The only winning move is not to play."

Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built

#22
post #7

I feel like all of this debate is painfully missing the point. The problem is not some content moderation policy, the problem is that social media has changed social conversations from small local interactions into monstrous virtual fight clubs between millions of people simultaneously, and where the most extreme opinions are rewarded with the most attention. Boring level headed opinions used to at least have a chanc…

> I feel like all of this debate is painfully missing the point.

Your point also applies to news -- articles these days miss the point by design. You get more clicks by being provocative and hyperbolic. And yellow journalism isn't really new, but its comeback has been triumphant.

Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built

#23

> "Yaël Eisenstat, Facebook's former election ads integrity lead, said the employees’ concerns reflect her experience at the company, which she believes is on a dangerous path heading into the election. > “All of these steps are leading up to a situation where, come November, a portion of Facebook users will not trust the outcome of the election because they have been bombarded with messages on Facebook preparing the…

This is extremely predictable though, because a sizable segment of Facebook users did not trust the outcome of the 2016 election. Why would it be any different in 2020?

If people suspect fraud and did nothing about it, they don't deserve to live in a free democratic society, and won't.

Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built

#24
post #11

Does WeChat cause the same problems in China as Facebook & Twitter in the west?

I'm pretty sure WeChat has many revenue streams that don't depend on engagement, thus they have no benefit in encouraging toxic behavior. The main problem with toxicity is not just the people but that the mainstream platforms are built to amplify the worst out of people because that's how they make their money.

Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built

#25
post #7

I feel like all of this debate is painfully missing the point. The problem is not some content moderation policy, the problem is that social media has changed social conversations from small local interactions into monstrous virtual fight clubs between millions of people simultaneously, and where the most extreme opinions are rewarded with the most attention. Boring level headed opinions used to at least have a chanc…

The policy and the design of the interface is inextricably linked to that change in interactions. A hands-off policy is still a policy for a site that rewarded more inflammatory content in pursuit of certain metrics.

Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built

#26
post #7

I feel like all of this debate is painfully missing the point. The problem is not some content moderation policy, the problem is that social media has changed social conversations from small local interactions into monstrous virtual fight clubs between millions of people simultaneously, and where the most extreme opinions are rewarded with the most attention. Boring level headed opinions used to at least have a chanc…

It's more than just the toxicity of the conversations. These vapid online brawls have engaged millions more people to vote who never would have voted in the past. Hence, introducing an easily swayed group of uneducated voters into the pool, and debasing politics to their level. If democracy represents the intelligence of the average voter, then engaging literally tens of millions of uneducated/emotional/immature peop…

This is nothing new in kind. The founders were fearful of mass democracy too and sought to avoid creating one. For better or for worse, they failed.

Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built

#27

> "Yaël Eisenstat, Facebook's former election ads integrity lead, said the employees’ concerns reflect her experience at the company, which she believes is on a dangerous path heading into the election. > “All of these steps are leading up to a situation where, come November, a portion of Facebook users will not trust the outcome of the election because they have been bombarded with messages on Facebook preparing the…

To be clear, Eisenstat's concern here is that Facebook isn't exercising enough editorial control over the content it allows. She argues that Facebook ought to remove content which upsets its employees, its advertisers, or the civil rights community.

The world is a big place, if you take any piece of content it’s bound to offend someone.

Should we ban content that promotes the Big Bang theory because it’s offensive to creationists?

Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built

#28

I think the idea is we need diversity in online social media. I'd like to see human editors come back. Here's how Benjamin Franklin dealt with his social media platform: "In the conduct of my newspaper, I carefully excluded all libelling and personal abuse, which is of late years become so disgraceful to our country. Whenever I was solicited to insert anything of that kind, and the writers pleaded, as they generally…

I mean, isn't that approximately what's occurring that some people ("writers") are up in arms about, except instead of "libel" and "personal abuse" it's things like "hate speech"?

Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built

#29
post #7

I feel like all of this debate is painfully missing the point. The problem is not some content moderation policy, the problem is that social media has changed social conversations from small local interactions into monstrous virtual fight clubs between millions of people simultaneously, and where the most extreme opinions are rewarded with the most attention. Boring level headed opinions used to at least have a chanc…

It's more than just the toxicity of the conversations. These vapid online brawls have engaged millions more people to vote who never would have voted in the past. Hence, introducing an easily swayed group of uneducated voters into the pool, and debasing politics to their level. If democracy represents the intelligence of the average voter, then engaging literally tens of millions of uneducated/emotional/immature peop…

I don’t really see anything very different there. Voters have always been easily manipulated: by newspapers, TV, whatever. Though I suppose one key difference is that the source of that manipulation has been hidden: you used to know what newspaper pushed what, now actors hide behind sockpuppet accounts and promoted ads.

Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built

#30
post #7

I feel like all of this debate is painfully missing the point. The problem is not some content moderation policy, the problem is that social media has changed social conversations from small local interactions into monstrous virtual fight clubs between millions of people simultaneously, and where the most extreme opinions are rewarded with the most attention. Boring level headed opinions used to at least have a chanc…

The other problem is that the business model of social media is based on generating "engagement" at all costs, so the platforms are built to encourage outrage as it generates lots of engagement, among other addictive behaviors (the infinite "algorithmic" feed for example). Social media was supposed to be a tool that serves people but its current business model encourages it to work against people. There were plenty o…

> nobody actually wanted to foster such toxic behavior

I think no one realized you could make disgusting amounts of money by fostering it. There have been plenty of flame wars on BBSes and forums, but the tension between "engagement" and "quality" always favored the latter in small, private communities (HN is a good example). However, when it comes to Facebook and Twitter, the former is always favored (due to market forces, shareholder interests, etc.).

Post reply on HN