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Launch HN: Mindset Health (YC S19) – Hypnotherapy apps for chronic conditions

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Re: Launch HN: Mindset Health (YC S19) – Hypnotherapy apps for chronic conditions

#21

Post by alexnaoumidis »

graeme wrote: post #15
alexnaoumidis wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great question! The approach used in the study also used psychoeducation and breathing exercises as well and we’re in the early stages of an observational study into the Nerva program. What do you mean re discouraging users who’ve tried FODMAP?

I read their comment as perhaps meaning that the study showed fodmap + hypnotherapy was no more effective than fodmap + hypnotherapy. A result I found surprising. (Unless it means the problem was effectively solved in both case, so no more improvement was possible)

Ahhh I understand - that’s a good point. Many people follow the low FODMAP diet without the direction of a dietitian (against the recommendation on how to do it) and likely aren’t getting the full result so GDH will still provide benefit, as well as helping the psychological side of IBS.

Interestingly, it’s possible they both help with visceral hypersensitivity - FODMAPs ferment in your gut causing gas and your gut to expand and hypersensitive nerves could then be alerting the brain to potential (but false) danger, so by avoid FODMAPs you avoid this process. Hypnotherapy could potentially be coming at the same process but from the top down instead.

Re: Launch HN: Mindset Health (YC S19) – Hypnotherapy apps for chronic conditions

#22

Post by TACIXAT »

graeme wrote: post #17
TACIXAT wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a celiac who cannot digest some FODMAPs this sounds like complete snake oil. The answer is not eating the foods. I meditate. It would be really reckless if someone told me if I just meditated hard enough I could eat gluten again. You don't know what underlying condition causes the IBS and continuing to consume a food that makes you sick could lead to untold damage.

Gluten isn’t a fodmap. Instead, fodmaps are present in almost all gluten containing foods. But sourdough bread has low fodmaps, but does have gluten. So I think you’re conflating two issues. Celiac is an absolute intolerance of gluten, whereas fodmap ibs is based on being unable to digest large quantities. No one really knows why, and it’s not implausible some mechanism such as stress reduction or hypnotherapy would…

I am aware that gluten is not a FODMAP, I can not eat high fructose foods. Gluten causes my body to attack itself which has damaged my small intestine. That has caused fructose malabsorption.

Re: Launch HN: Mindset Health (YC S19) – Hypnotherapy apps for chronic conditions

#23

Post by TACIXAT »

alexnaoumidis wrote: post #16
TACIXAT wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a celiac who cannot digest some FODMAPs this sounds like complete snake oil. The answer is not eating the foods. I meditate. It would be really reckless if someone told me if I just meditated hard enough I could eat gluten again. You don't know what underlying condition causes the IBS and continuing to consume a food that makes you sick could lead to untold damage.

I am actually Celiac as well and follow a strict gluten free diet so I know where you’re coming from. Although the cause of IBS is unknown, it’s a functional condition which means it’s problem with how the gut works but doesn’t lead to any damage. Instead, it’s thought that visceral hypersensitivity could be at play, where the nerves in the gut are overreacting to the gas and expansion caused by the fermentation of F…

Someone looking to fix their gas or regular diarrhea isn't going to be able to distinguish between gut inflammation and not. They're just going to be searching how to fix IBS. I don't see how your app would distinguish between these either, before posing as a treatment.

Re: Launch HN: Mindset Health (YC S19) – Hypnotherapy apps for chronic conditions

#24

Post by alexnaoumidis »

TACIXAT wrote: post #20

I believe the IBS product is dangerous. There are foods I cannot digest because my gut has been damaged from celiac disease (high fructose foods). Even if Nerva is effective at treating IBS (perhaps, especially if it is effective) that would be treating a symptom for an underlying disease while maintaining the activity that damages your body. I am incredibly grateful I never heard about this before trying an eliminat…

As someone with Celiac disease I know where you’re coming from but you’re conflating two different conditions.

Celiac disease occurs when your immune system damages your stomach lining in response to eating gluten. It’s why a strict gluten free diet is required. Many gluten contain foods also contain FODMAPs but that’s not what’s causing the immune response.

IBS on the other hand is a functional condition which means it’s problem with how the gut works but doesn’t lead to any damage of the gut/stomach lining. Instead, it’s thought that visceral hypersensitivity could be at play, where the nerves in the gut are overreacting to the gas and expansion caused by the fermentation of FODMAPs. By avoiding FODMAPs you limit this process and reduce symptoms - it’s thought that GDH helps with this process from the top-down and that’s potentially why the Monash study (creators of the Low FODMAP diet) found the response rate was so similar between the two treatment groups.

Re: Launch HN: Mindset Health (YC S19) – Hypnotherapy apps for chronic conditions

#25

Post by alexnaoumidis »

spython wrote: post #18
alexnaoumidis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s really cool, its taking self-hypnosis to the next level. I personally dislike hearing the sound of my own voice haha but glad to hear you’re finding it helpful.

Haha, yes, I took a few tries to get the tone of the voice quite right. Maybe something for to explore in future releases of your app? A guided, self-created hypnotherapy session. Could take away the fear of and resistance to 'losing control' that many experience when the idea of being subjected to hypnosis comes up.

Yeah I think it’s a great idea - we’re really interested in expanding the level of personalisation our programs provide and this could be a feature. Definitely, it’s harder to fear losing control when it’s your own voice.

Re: Launch HN: Mindset Health (YC S19) – Hypnotherapy apps for chronic conditions

#26

Post by TACIXAT »

alexnaoumidis wrote: post #24
TACIXAT wrote: post #20

I believe the IBS product is dangerous. There are foods I cannot digest because my gut has been damaged from celiac disease (high fructose foods). Even if Nerva is effective at treating IBS (perhaps, especially if it is effective) that would be treating a symptom for an underlying disease while maintaining the activity that damages your body. I am incredibly grateful I never heard about this before trying an eliminat…

As someone with Celiac disease I know where you’re coming from but you’re conflating two different conditions. Celiac disease occurs when your immune system damages your stomach lining in response to eating gluten. It’s why a strict gluten free diet is required. Many gluten contain foods also contain FODMAPs but that’s not what’s causing the immune response. IBS on the other hand is a functional condition which means…

People with celiac often have IBS and are often misdiagnosed with IBS. [1] They are not disjoint problems and often difficult to differentiate. It seems really reckless to offer this as a treatment without requiring people to consult a physician for a proper diagnosis.

1. https://www.beyondceliac.org/celiac-disease/related-conditio...

Re: Launch HN: Mindset Health (YC S19) – Hypnotherapy apps for chronic conditions

#27

Post by alexnaoumidis »

TACIXAT wrote: post #26
alexnaoumidis wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with Celiac disease I know where you’re coming from but you’re conflating two different conditions. Celiac disease occurs when your immune system damages your stomach lining in response to eating gluten. It’s why a strict gluten free diet is required. Many gluten contain foods also contain FODMAPs but that’s not what’s causing the immune response. IBS on the other hand is a functional condition which means…

People with celiac often have IBS and are often misdiagnosed with IBS. [1] They are not disjoint problems and often difficult to differentiate. It seems really reckless to offer this as a treatment without requiring people to consult a physician for a proper diagnosis. 1. https://www.beyondceliac.org/celiac-disease/related-conditio...

Nerva is for people have been diagnosed with IBS, not for people who have self-diagnosed themselves. I definitely agree, many conditions present similar symptoms like IBD, celiac disease etc so it’s important people are properly diagnosed before attempting any management options including the low FODMAP diet and GDH.

Nerva isn’t a treatment, it’s a program that teaches people self-regulation skills and relaxation exercises that can help them self-manage their symptoms.

Re: Launch HN: Mindset Health (YC S19) – Hypnotherapy apps for chronic conditions

#28

Post by alexnaoumidis »

TACIXAT wrote: post #23
alexnaoumidis wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am actually Celiac as well and follow a strict gluten free diet so I know where you’re coming from. Although the cause of IBS is unknown, it’s a functional condition which means it’s problem with how the gut works but doesn’t lead to any damage. Instead, it’s thought that visceral hypersensitivity could be at play, where the nerves in the gut are overreacting to the gas and expansion caused by the fermentation of F…

Someone looking to fix their gas or regular diarrhea isn't going to be able to distinguish between gut inflammation and not. They're just going to be searching how to fix IBS. I don't see how your app would distinguish between these either, before posing as a treatment.

Nerva is for people have been diagnosed with IBS, not for people who have self-diagnosed themselves. Many conditions present similar symptoms like IBD, celiac disease etc so it’s important people are properly diagnosed before attempting any management options including the low FODMAP diet and GDH.

Nerva isn’t a treatment, it’s a program that teaches people self-regulation skills and relaxation exercises that can help them self-manage their symptoms.

Re: Launch HN: Mindset Health (YC S19) – Hypnotherapy apps for chronic conditions

#29

Post by chrisnaoumidis »

graeme wrote: post #19
chrisnaoumidis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great to hear. It's actually one of the areas we're looking at building a product into due to the effectiveness of hypnotherapy with it.

I’m going to try the ibs version, as I have that too. Have tried low fodmap before incidentally, it helped.

I hope you enjoy and see results from the program - I'd love to hear your feedback and thoughts.

Re: Launch HN: Mindset Health (YC S19) – Hypnotherapy apps for chronic conditions

#30

Post by throw345hn »

TACIXAT wrote: post #20

I believe the IBS product is dangerous. There are foods I cannot digest because my gut has been damaged from celiac disease (high fructose foods). Even if Nerva is effective at treating IBS (perhaps, especially if it is effective) that would be treating a symptom for an underlying disease while maintaining the activity that damages your body. I am incredibly grateful I never heard about this before trying an eliminat…

As someone who only suffers from IBS, I have had good results from elimination and low fodmap diet. However stress and anxiety also have a pretty big and equal effect as diet. Both go together for me and even if one of them messes up it, I get a flare up kind of reaction.
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