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Launch HN: Openbase (YC S20) – reviews and insights for open-source packages

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Re: Launch HN: Openbase (YC S20) – reviews and insights for open-source packages

#21
This is neat. Vetting dependencies is an essential yet understated task, and there are simply no existent tools on the market. I started creating a similar tool on the side (by starting I mean I just bought a domain name ;-) depvet.io)

Here are some random ideas I've been thinking about, maybe some of it would be useful to you:

Possible monetization strategies:

You mentioned "paid promotion of packages" as a way to monetize, what I had in mind is a bit different: on-premise installation. You provide tools to scan an entire Github org then build your UI based on that. Besides vetting, there are plenty of features you could add:

- Blocklists: it is common for companies to have a list of packages you cannot use. It could be based on a number of criteria like authors, licenses, collaborators, etc. We have one in Confluence and I always forget to look it up.

- Commenting/Rating: When looking at a dependency, I usually do a Github search to find other teams that use it and ask them about their experience. Sometimes there are specific caveats that you can't find online; sometimes, we already have a fork that we need to use instead. A tool where I can see all projects using a particular package, internal comments, rating, and maybe even integration code samples would certainly be welcome.

- Security vulnerabilities: While there are plenty of startups in this area, most of them appeal to the security org and not the engineers. If you integrate the security component into the vetting process, I think you can touch a bigger audience.

- Fork maintenance: forks are a pain to maintain and keep up to date. Sometimes you forget why you had a fork in the first place. I'm not entirely sure how this would look like, but I think it's worth exploring.

Challenges:

- Github has been doing an excellent job recently. Building all this out is way simpler for them since they own the source data. Don't be surprised if they take you out of business by implementing similar features. Have a backup plan for when (not if) this happens.

- Github API rate limits: 5000 requests per hour is not much, it may be enough for one language, but you eventually have to add more. If you were thinking of using the user's OAuth tokens, plan on having a robust security practice, because it will be scrutinized.

- The single most important metric, in my opinion, is not present in your tool: The total number of dependencies. The flaws in direct dependencies are just as bad as flaws in indirect ones, and while I can quickly look at the package.json to determine the first level, there is no simple way to see/vet all transitive dependencies.

I wish you the best of luck and I think you have something here, but I suggest spending some time on your monetization strategy before you go any further.

Re: Launch HN: Openbase (YC S20) – reviews and insights for open-source packages

#22
post #13

Another interesting metric to try to capture would be issue resolution. A lot of time you might have a very decisive issue in Github where the developers basically piss off a lot of their users. I don't think that's generally a good metric to promote as a top level metric obviously, but it would be interesting way to slice and dice projects. But that analysis could look for thumbs up or fireworks or other Happy react…

Oh wow, great feedback.

We do have a metric like median time to resolve issue - and we even display it on a chart over time.

Sentiment analysis (natural language or emojis) could be really interesting in terms of assessing the issues, we probably don't have the resources to pull this off right now but this would be amazing.

and yeah, we should be careful not to incentivize user behavior that rewards criticizing maintainers as some kind of a leverage.

Re: Launch HN: Openbase (YC S20) – reviews and insights for open-source packages

#23
I would really love if this displayed the bundle size of each package (a la bundlephobia[0]).

I'm not quite sure I understand how or why this is a business, but there certainly is some base level of utility value. I have a feeling this will ultimately end up encapsulating a job board.

[0] https://bundlephobia.com

Re: Launch HN: Openbase (YC S20) – reviews and insights for open-source packages

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a lot of work. In terms of making money - we're thinking about paid promotion of packages: allowing maintainers (companies and individuals) to promote their packages, we found there's a big need for that. We want to limit it to a single (clearly marked) promoted package for each category. Obviously, we would just surface the promoted package, but the package reviews, insights, and metrics are obviously untouche…

That seems like an interesting choice. As an individual, I don't think I'd ever pay for promotion of a package unless I had moved my career to providing support for open source packages. I can imagine companies using it as a marketing exercise for their open source efforts. That might not be a bad thing as packages backed by companies tend to be better, more mature, have better support. However I can see this then be…

Yeah, I assume the vast majority of paying maintainers would be SaaS companies (for services like monitoring or logging), API companies, infrastructure companies (DBs, etc.)

I do think the vast majority of these companies already have packages, since they need developers to integrate with their services.

Re: Launch HN: Openbase (YC S20) – reviews and insights for open-source packages

#25

How are you going to prevent nasty people thinking they have the right to hunt down open-source creators who work for free and should have no pressure to get things done? Feels like such a platform can also cause stress with people trying to rate a package when they take no time to actually help with commits into the package.

That's a great question, I agree this might become a problem down the line, when bad players might try to pressurize package maintainers into fixing problems. We haven't encountered this problem yet, and believe most developers are decent enough to honestly rate a package based on their experience, as opposed to using it as a leverage. Few things we're thinking about: * Allowing maintainers to flag such reviews (for…

Maybe you could let people put bounties on issues, and pay the developers.

Re: Launch HN: Openbase (YC S20) – reviews and insights for open-source packages

#26
post #20

On one hand, this is fantastic and desperately needed. I've wanted something similar for years. On the other hand, I've been an open-source developer (one of my projects has 7.5k stars on GitHub) and the constant stream of negativity towards that the work I put hundreds of hours into for free was pretty psychologically draining, to say the least. And it's actually a pretty well-liked project! By making such a service…

I feel you.

I heard from several maintainers about this phenomena, where at first all you want is your package is to be popular and have many users, but after a while you notice having more users is becoming a burden, with so many requests, issues, and opinions.

But I can see what you mean. We're still small enough, but I would assume if Openbase becomes a success we take on a lot of responsibility - in terms of making sure maintainers rewarded (not necessarily monetarily) and not punished for their good work.

Re: Launch HN: Openbase (YC S20) – reviews and insights for open-source packages

#27
post #23

I would really love if this displayed the bundle size of each package (a la bundlephobia[0]). I'm not quite sure I understand how or why this is a business, but there certainly is some base level of utility value. I have a feeling this will ultimately end up encapsulating a job board. [0] https://bundlephobia.com

We get this feedback a lot actually - and we do plan to integrating bundle size (e.g. gzipped/uncompressed) into the product soon.

In terms of business model - we're actually thinking about paid promotion of packages: allowing maintainers (companies and individuals) to promote their packages, we found there's a big need for that. We want to limit it to a single (clearly marked) promoted package for each category. Obviously, we would just surface the promoted package, but the package reviews, insights, and metrics are obviously untouched.

Any thoughts on that approach?

Re: Launch HN: Openbase (YC S20) – reviews and insights for open-source packages

#28

This looks like a lot of work. How will Openbase make money?

It is a lot of work. In terms of making money - we're thinking about paid promotion of packages: allowing maintainers (companies and individuals) to promote their packages, we found there's a big need for that. We want to limit it to a single (clearly marked) promoted package for each category. Obviously, we would just surface the promoted package, but the package reviews, insights, and metrics are obviously untouche…

Why not charge the maintainers themselves to advertise validation by your brand (once you have established that trusted brand)?

I mean, I see that you are attacking this problem from the analysis and search perspective, which is great and well needed, but there is an intersecting need for security validation and preventing malicious package updates. There is more liability that way, but imo there is greater incentive for enterprise customers and/or maintainers to pay for packages you distribute.

Re: Launch HN: Openbase (YC S20) – reviews and insights for open-source packages

#29

This looks like a lot of work. How will Openbase make money?

It is a lot of work. In terms of making money - we're thinking about paid promotion of packages: allowing maintainers (companies and individuals) to promote their packages, we found there's a big need for that. We want to limit it to a single (clearly marked) promoted package for each category. Obviously, we would just surface the promoted package, but the package reviews, insights, and metrics are obviously untouche…

> we found there's a big need for that.

Would you mind elaborating on this comment? What are some reasons why one would pay to promote their package?

edit: Great stuff btw. Would love to see this for Python/Java packages

Re: Launch HN: Openbase (YC S20) – reviews and insights for open-source packages

#30
post #16

What’s the business model to get paid for something like this? Alternatively phrased, how is this a sustainable business? And how do you beat Microsoft from melding in this functionality into GitHub / NPM? The friction would so much lower (existing GitHub account) and they can place the information directly on the project pages.

In terms of bizmodel - we're thinking about paid promotion of packages - allowing maintainers (companies and individuals) to promote their packages.

We want to limit it to a single clearly-marked promoted package for each category. Obviously, we would just surface the promoted package, but the package reviews, insights, and metrics are obviously untouched.

Obviously, users would be happy if GitHub included some of those functionalities inside the repos. However, I don't think GitHub could simply put user reviews on all repos (technically they could, but business-wise that would not be a smart decision). So even if they were to do that, and user reviews were an opt-in feature in GitHub, then you'd have reviews enabled for some packages and not for others, which is suboptimal.

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