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Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#21
post #12

The reason for why the backend for the snap store hasn't been opensourced has been explained multiple times. Namely that it would be expensive to open source it with little benefit in return. Canonical already spent a large amount of investment opensourcing launchpad and nobody other than them operate it. Mainly because the majority of the costs are for operating an instance which most other distros aren't willing to…

> Namely that it would be expensive to open source it with little benefit in return.

Would you describe exactly what will be expensive in releasing the source code to software that was developed in house? Does it have lots of dependencies on proprietary software? If so, why?

> Namely they want one location to find software, and one location to serve software.

And this, is the killer. This is exactly what the people at Linux Mint do not want. This is why F-Droid exists on Android. Yes, free software can be distributed on the snap store or on Google Play, but ultimately these are proprietary platforms controlled by one corporate entity whose interests may not be aligned with those of the community. Users of community Linux distros demand choice in where they obtain software.

> That and the whole aspects of malware/trust goes out the window.

Malware has already been successfully pushed to the Snap Store. The idea of "trust" here is also antithetical to open-source and software freedom. Rather than trusting software because it has verifiable source code, we now trust software because it came from a store that removes well known malware.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#22
post #15
post #7

From the linked announcement: https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3906 > Applications in this store cannot be patched, or pinned. You can’t audit them, hold them, modify them or even point snap to a different store. You’ve as much empowerment with this as if you were using proprietary software, i.e. none. This is in effect similar to a commercial proprietary solution, but with two major differences: It runs as root, and it…

Is there no way to sandbox these packages - "have you cake and eat it too?" I'm a noob to modern Linux. Edit: Are snaps images? ...like containers? Edit 2: answer: > mounted dynamically by the host operating system, together with declarative metadata that is interpreted by the snap system to set up an appropriately shaped secure sandbox or container for that application

If you need this kind of packaging but want to retain freedom, just use an alternative solution like flatpak, which sandboxes from the get-go and lets you control what parts of your system the application can access

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#24
post #12

The reason for why the backend for the snap store hasn't been opensourced has been explained multiple times. Namely that it would be expensive to open source it with little benefit in return. Canonical already spent a large amount of investment opensourcing launchpad and nobody other than them operate it. Mainly because the majority of the costs are for operating an instance which most other distros aren't willing to…

> The reason for why the backend for the snap store hasn't been opensourced has been explained multiple times.

I just think it's weird that a supposedly open source company like Canonical would build close source infrastructure. Like, just develop it in the open to begin with?

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#25
post #7

From the linked announcement: https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3906 > Applications in this store cannot be patched, or pinned. You can’t audit them, hold them, modify them or even point snap to a different store. You’ve as much empowerment with this as if you were using proprietary software, i.e. none. This is in effect similar to a commercial proprietary solution, but with two major differences: It runs as root, and it…

I can see why Snap is like it is from Canonial's perspective - but from the User perspective it seems like FlatPaks[1] are much better and address the issues that this article raises

[1] https://flathub.org/home

(Disclaimer: I'm talking in a personal capacity but the company I work for in my day job now owns Red Hat - I don't work on Linux Operating Systems).

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#26
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there no way to sandbox these packages - "have you cake and eat it too?" I'm a noob to modern Linux. Edit: Are snaps images? ...like containers? Edit 2: answer: > mounted dynamically by the host operating system, together with declarative metadata that is interpreted by the snap system to set up an appropriately shaped secure sandbox or container for that application

The main (and better supported) competitor is Flatpak, which at least doesn't have the terrible marketing.

Thank you - :)

Reading about the cons of Snap now - "auto-updates cannot be turned off" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_(package_manager)

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#27

I'm hoping they will switch their base to Clear Linux. I have been using Clear Linux on my personal laptop, and it's been a fantastic experience so far.

Isn't Clear Linux an Intel project? Kinda defeats the purpose if you're trying to reduce the influence of one corporation by replacing it with an even bigger, more monopolistic one

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#28

This seems like a problem: > Snap packages are effectively black-boxes; they cannot be reproduced independently as the packaging data is controlled by the package maker alone. One of the nice properties of debian packages is the ability to `apt-get source` and build it locally. Would be a shame to lose that. Maybe Nix and Guix can provide the best of both worlds here: self-contained software but reproducible builds t…

Any distro where you have to write a little haskell-ish 30 line script to set up an environment just to be able to start compiling (or even running!) things is not going to be widely popular for desktop use.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#29

I wonder if it is finally time for me to give Arch a try. It's a shame that all my lab's machines run Ubuntu; although I find it solid, this sort of controlling behavior by Canonical seems against the spirit of FOSS.

I am honestly thinking the same thing. Still a bit hesitant as I mainly use Linux for work.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#30
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main (and better supported) competitor is Flatpak, which at least doesn't have the terrible marketing.

Thank you - :) Reading about the cons of Snap now - "auto-updates cannot be turned off" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_(package_manager)

Just what we all want on our production hosts.
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