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A practical case on why we need the humanities

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Re: A practical case on why we need the humanities

#21

Post by Frippy »

mc32 wrote: post #15
Frippy wrote: post #12

This article has some good points but is a bit meandering. The best point is right there at the beginning: the humanities study things which are not (entirely) subject to scientific rigor, but which are still worth studying. This sort of begs the question, why is anything worth studying? I think Francis Bacon made the best point about this: knowledge—real knowledge—is about the ability to reliably recreate some effec…

>” the humanities study things which are not (entirely) subject to scientific rigor, but which are still worth studying.” An issue with these things is that institutions and government make major decisions based on the output from these fields. It’s not that we discount them completely but we should also consider opposing data from alternate studies, but what you get is agenda driven decision making (on all sides, th…

Agreed, I think the points others have made about the humanities being used as political weapons are valid. As a rule of thumb, any time knowledge is being used in the drunk-with-a-lamppost fashion (for support rather than illumination), it should be subject to scrutiny. And because of the lack of rigor, the humanities are more open to abuse than some other fields. But we shouldn't kid ourselves and pretend that scientific knowledge and mathematics aren't also weaponized to push agendas. That's a risk to a greater or lesser degree with any subject.

Re: A practical case on why we need the humanities

#22

Post by Chathamization »

> Does anyone look at the present moment and conclude that we have an over-abundance of humble, empathetic, well-trained and effectively communicating leaders?

Yet do we have a dearth of leaders with experience in the humanities? Just doing a quick look at the current politcal leadership, and Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi both have a degree in political science. Trump has a degree in economics, but Obama and George W. Bush both majored in the humanities. [Edit: I thought I'd take a look at the past three vice-presidents as well - Pence, Biden, and Cheney all majored in the humanities.]

Saying that these qualities are important is fine, but one has to consider whether or not the current way that academia teaches the humanities is a good way to instill them in people. If something doesn't achieve its goal, then it doesn't matter how lofty said goal is.

I'm constantly impressed by how articles like these claim that studying the humanities will give people a better way to question things and think critically about the world around them, but then fail to do so themselves.

Re: A practical case on why we need the humanities

#23

Post by mc32 »

ianleeclark wrote: post #19
mc32 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>” the humanities study things which are not (entirely) subject to scientific rigor, but which are still worth studying.” An issue with these things is that institutions and government make major decisions based on the output from these fields. It’s not that we discount them completely but we should also consider opposing data from alternate studies, but what you get is agenda driven decision making (on all sides, th…

> An issue with these things is that institutions and government make major decisions ... what you get is agenda driven decision making What do you think politics is? Everyone in politics has an agenda. > It’s not that we discount them completely but we should also consider opposing data from alternate studies Politicians already do this. Whenever there's a decision being made, it's being processed through a host of…

I’m fine with these if they have some data that’s withstood scrutiny —but I’ve seen governments make decisions based on studies published by second tier educational institutions because it dovetails with their ideology.

Re: A practical case on why we need the humanities

#24

Post by Frippy »

aliante wrote: post #13
Frippy wrote: post #12

This article has some good points but is a bit meandering. The best point is right there at the beginning: the humanities study things which are not (entirely) subject to scientific rigor, but which are still worth studying. This sort of begs the question, why is anything worth studying? I think Francis Bacon made the best point about this: knowledge—real knowledge—is about the ability to reliably recreate some effec…

> humanities study things which are not (entirely) subject to scientific rigor That is putting it mildly. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair

Yeah I agree, there are some particularly egregious examples. If you want a good laugh about this stuff, "Fashionable Nonsense" is a great book.

Re: A practical case on why we need the humanities

#25

Post by Frippy »

jseliger wrote: post #17
Frippy wrote: post #12

This article has some good points but is a bit meandering. The best point is right there at the beginning: the humanities study things which are not (entirely) subject to scientific rigor, but which are still worth studying. This sort of begs the question, why is anything worth studying? I think Francis Bacon made the best point about this: knowledge—real knowledge—is about the ability to reliably recreate some effec…

One big issue is how the humanities are widely practiced today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23728642

Yep I agree, I had some horrible professors as a history postgrad that embodied this exact approach.

Re: A practical case on why we need the humanities

#26

Post by m0zg »

Chathamization wrote: post #22

> Does anyone look at the present moment and conclude that we have an over-abundance of humble, empathetic, well-trained and effectively communicating leaders? Yet do we have a dearth of leaders with experience in the humanities? Just doing a quick look at the current politcal leadership, and Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi both have a degree in political science. Trump has a degree in economics, but Obama and Georg…

>> claim that studying the humanities will give people a better way to question things and think critically

Approximately 100% of these articles are written by humanities majors though, so I'm not sure what else you're expecting to see.

Re: A practical case on why we need the humanities

#27

Post by ianleeclark »

mc32 wrote: post #23
ianleeclark wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An issue with these things is that institutions and government make major decisions ... what you get is agenda driven decision making What do you think politics is? Everyone in politics has an agenda. > It’s not that we discount them completely but we should also consider opposing data from alternate studies Politicians already do this. Whenever there's a decision being made, it's being processed through a host of…

I’m fine with these if they have some data that’s withstood scrutiny —but I’ve seen governments make decisions based on studies published by second tier educational institutions because it dovetails with their ideology.

I still would like to know what your conception of politics is.

> I’ve seen governments make decisions based on studies published by second tier educational institutions because it dovetails with their ideology.

Do you have an example of this for a humanities specific field? I could see maybe philosophy, but I really don't think most humanities fields have the political power a lot of people attribute to them.

Re: A practical case on why we need the humanities

#29

Post by spacegod »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #5
eggsmediumrare wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing over-admission, watered down standards and acquiescence to bad ideas, but I can't speak for the original poster.

Yes to all of that. A culture of fear and loathing. Charging obscene levels of tuition for it while piling the real work onto adjuncts. Close-mindedness that would make John Calvin blush. The list is extremely long. There is no chance I would let a university humanities department anywhere near my children at this point.

"Close-mindedness that would make John Calvin blush."

I swear that some of you (Silicon Valley autists) can think only memetically. Truly a tragedy.

"There is no chance I would let a university humanities department anywhere near my children at this point."

They wouldn't let your child in it to begin with.

Let me share an anecdote: Out of the seven friends that I have that graduated with engineering degrees, only 1 is still an engineer. Most regret it since it hampered their social skills.

On the other hand, the Chinese language and History double major is pulling in bank by luring in Chinese real estate investment. He is easily the most happy out of all of us.

STEM is a meme that needs to die. America does not need any more biology, chemical engineering or physics undergrads. It needs stats, philosophy, and accounting undergrads. It needs people who can maneuver political systems with ease. It needs people who can approach a problem from 15 different angles and see them for what they are.

Specialization is not king. Adaptability is.

Re: A practical case on why we need the humanities

#30

Post by kortilla »

ianleeclark wrote: post #19
mc32 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>” the humanities study things which are not (entirely) subject to scientific rigor, but which are still worth studying.” An issue with these things is that institutions and government make major decisions based on the output from these fields. It’s not that we discount them completely but we should also consider opposing data from alternate studies, but what you get is agenda driven decision making (on all sides, th…

> An issue with these things is that institutions and government make major decisions ... what you get is agenda driven decision making What do you think politics is? Everyone in politics has an agenda. > It’s not that we discount them completely but we should also consider opposing data from alternate studies Politicians already do this. Whenever there's a decision being made, it's being processed through a host of…

Agendas are expected. Don’t use an economics paper to back a policy decision under the guise of data/science-driven policy making though.
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