Tell candidates what to expect from your job interviews • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell candidates what to expect from your job interviews

#21

Post by jeff_jefferson » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:09 AM UTC

gozzoo wrote: post #13

vinaysshenoy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We ( https://obvious.in ) documented our entire hiring process on our Playbook ( https://playbook.obvious.in/hiring/hiring-process/engineerin... ). Took us about a week to write everything down the first time and then we continuously updated it until it reached the current state. We had the advantage of being a "public by default" company, so there was no need for approvals of any sort.

> We expect you to use git, commit code as you go along, and build the app iteratively -- just as you would during a normal workday. This seems a little bit odd to me. How long do you expect people to work on their home assigments in order for them to commit often? Is it days, or weeks? I don't imagine multiple commits for a 3 hour poject. For a new project there aren't any well defined states of the code that make s…

I think you've just failed that part of the test. If you've got more than an extremely simple project there are multiple point s where you should commit.

If you implement a piece of logic with passing tests, then commit. It takes seconds to do but makes reviewing so much easier.

Re: Tell candidates what to expect from your job interviews

#22

Post by ConsiderCrying » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:13 AM UTC

axegon_ wrote: post #10

Perhaps a bit of an unpopular opinion but as far as interviews go, I think that seeing how someone reacts unprepared is a lot more valuable then seeing their work with them knowing what to expect. You see their ability to adapt and improvise, which is far more valuable then being picky about a particular library or technology. Yes, the quality of their tests will be lower, but that's fine and you can take that into a…

> I think that seeing how someone reacts unprepared is a lot more valuable then seeing their work with them knowing what to expect

But why? The odds of them facing unexpected tasks on the job aren't that high, they have their job description, they have their set of skills, you delegate tasks based on that. It's not like there are curveballs coming every week where they have to upend their knowledge and strategies. It might be good to see how they act under pressure but seeing the person comfortable and putting in their best work helps evaluate how beneficial they will be to the company.

Re: Tell candidates what to expect from your job interviews

#23

Post by vinaysshenoy » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:13 AM UTC

gozzoo wrote: post #13

vinaysshenoy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We ( https://obvious.in ) documented our entire hiring process on our Playbook ( https://playbook.obvious.in/hiring/hiring-process/engineerin... ). Took us about a week to write everything down the first time and then we continuously updated it until it reached the current state. We had the advantage of being a "public by default" company, so there was no need for approvals of any sort.

> We expect you to use git, commit code as you go along, and build the app iteratively -- just as you would during a normal workday. This seems a little bit odd to me. How long do you expect people to work on their home assigments in order for them to commit often? Is it days, or weeks? I don't imagine multiple commits for a 3 hour poject. For a new project there aren't any well defined states of the code that make s…

The exercise itself is a simple note-taking app with a couple of screens. We don't impose a time limit on candidates interviewing to complete this stage.

> For a new project there aren't any well defined states of the code that make sense to be persisted. This means the commits will be arbitrary and their messeages not very meaningful.

I didn't understand this? The problem is well scoped and defined. Regardless of whether it's a new project or old, we expect candidates to be able to split their work as atomically as possible.

Re: Tell candidates what to expect from your job interviews

#24

Post by jrockway » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:14 AM UTC

My general thought is that your compensation scale should be proportional to the complexity of the interview process. If you're going to be copying the FAANG interview process, then the candidate should expect an offer similar to what they'd get from FAANG.

In general, I haven't been disappointed on this front, but I fear that many people are. If you want to be super transparent about the interview process, you should probably define what compensation range you're going to offer and realize that some candidates will simply never contact you. Saves everyone time.

Re: Tell candidates what to expect from your job interviews

#25

Post by lnsru » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:18 AM UTC

gozzoo wrote: post #13

vinaysshenoy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We ( https://obvious.in ) documented our entire hiring process on our Playbook ( https://playbook.obvious.in/hiring/hiring-process/engineerin... ). Took us about a week to write everything down the first time and then we continuously updated it until it reached the current state. We had the advantage of being a "public by default" company, so there was no need for approvals of any sort.

> We expect you to use git, commit code as you go along, and build the app iteratively -- just as you would during a normal workday. This seems a little bit odd to me. How long do you expect people to work on their home assigments in order for them to commit often? Is it days, or weeks? I don't imagine multiple commits for a 3 hour poject. For a new project there aren't any well defined states of the code that make s…

It is not expected to be 3 hours project. Target easily 3 days for it. Requirement to get more points for this assignment from that page: “Detailed documentation with setup, screenshots, configuration instructions, etc.” This alone might take couple hours.

Re: Tell candidates what to expect from your job interviews

#26

Post by Dayshine » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:21 AM UTC

lnsru wrote: post #25

gozzoo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We expect you to use git, commit code as you go along, and build the app iteratively -- just as you would during a normal workday. This seems a little bit odd to me. How long do you expect people to work on their home assigments in order for them to commit often? Is it days, or weeks? I don't imagine multiple commits for a 3 hour poject. For a new project there aren't any well defined states of the code that make s…

It is not expected to be 3 hours project. Target easily 3 days for it. Requirement to get more points for this assignment from that page: “Detailed documentation with setup, screenshots, configuration instructions, etc.” This alone might take couple hours.

You expect candidates to spend 20-30 hours on a task, and you don't even guarantee an interview?

Talk about exploitative. Hell, that's incredibly biased. Can you imagine a young parent being able to do that?

Re: Tell candidates what to expect from your job interviews

#27

Post by brailsafe » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:23 AM UTC

barbegal wrote: post #15

denzil_correa wrote: post #9

> We will do our best to provide a 15 minute break and/or lunch/coffee break during your interviews, especially if you'll be interviewing for more than 3 hours. That said, we are happy to accommodate additional breaks or fewer breaks, depending on your preferences, just let your recruiter or recruiting coordinator know! I have seen this w/o breaks 5-7 interviews a day, too often. Some candidates suffer from low energ…

Is there any evidence to suggest that more than 3 hours of interviews is actually beneficial? 7 hours of interview seems like overkill. I've never had more than a couple of hours of interview: an hour with the department head and another hour with my future line manager and/or another senior employee.

Afaik, research suggests that interviewers know after 20 seconds whether they'll hire someone. I don't have references and don't know if this would translate well to tech interviewing, but I'd wager that the vast majority of a 7h interview day is totally pointless.

Re: Tell candidates what to expect from your job interviews

#28

Post by vinaysshenoy » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:26 AM UTC

Dayshine wrote: post #26

lnsru wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not expected to be 3 hours project. Target easily 3 days for it. Requirement to get more points for this assignment from that page: “Detailed documentation with setup, screenshots, configuration instructions, etc.” This alone might take couple hours.

You expect candidates to spend 20-30 hours on a task, and you don't even guarantee an interview? Talk about exploitative. Hell, that's incredibly biased. Can you imagine a young parent being able to do that?

We did allow concessions for people who were not able to find time to do the exercise. We merged it with the pair programming exercise and asked them to build it with us in office.

Re: Tell candidates what to expect from your job interviews

#29

Post by brailsafe » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:28 AM UTC

ConsiderCrying wrote: post #22

axegon_ wrote: post #10

Perhaps a bit of an unpopular opinion but as far as interviews go, I think that seeing how someone reacts unprepared is a lot more valuable then seeing their work with them knowing what to expect. You see their ability to adapt and improvise, which is far more valuable then being picky about a particular library or technology. Yes, the quality of their tests will be lower, but that's fine and you can take that into a…

> I think that seeing how someone reacts unprepared is a lot more valuable then seeing their work with them knowing what to expect But why? The odds of them facing unexpected tasks on the job aren't that high, they have their job description, they have their set of skills, you delegate tasks based on that. It's not like there are curveballs coming every week where they have to upend their knowledge and strategies. It…

Imo, most of most jobs come down to how well you can tolerate doing what is basically intellectual grunt work while people interrupt your attention. As an IC, things are much more boring than ridiculous interview processes would have you believe.

Re: Tell candidates what to expect from your job interviews

#30

Post by vinaysshenoy » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:28 AM UTC

catsarebetter wrote: post #8

vinaysshenoy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We ( https://obvious.in ) documented our entire hiring process on our Playbook ( https://playbook.obvious.in/hiring/hiring-process/engineerin... ). Took us about a week to write everything down the first time and then we continuously updated it until it reached the current state. We had the advantage of being a "public by default" company, so there was no need for approvals of any sort.

Oh nice, you know it does have an interesting effect on me of making Obvious a more enticing place to apply... Has this improved the quality of interviews and/or applicants?

It's hard for us to tell since this was the first time we were doing an "official" interview for hiring.