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'It's hard to find maintainers': Linus Torvalds ponders Linux's future

theregister.com

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Re: 'It's hard to find maintainers': Linus Torvalds ponders Linux's future

#21

Post by pklo »

kyran_adept wrote: post #4

I think Linus is at fault here. Having a PR process that requires sending a patch over email, email threads done with super old mailing list software, etc instead of the more modern workflow of using forks, PRs in a web UI, etc is tedious and annoying. Making kernel development and maintaining more accesible to younger people would increase the pool of potential maintainers.

Of course Linus wrote git, so it's not like he's against modern workflow. There are kernel forks of course, I think that not using web front end is partly due to reluctance to become dependent on an commercial service that Linux people don't control, and partly due to the fact that they like to keep their hands in the mud.

Re: 'It's hard to find maintainers': Linus Torvalds ponders Linux's future

#23

Post by TomJansen »

u801e wrote: post #11
kyran_adept wrote: post #4

I think Linus is at fault here. Having a PR process that requires sending a patch over email, email threads done with super old mailing list software, etc instead of the more modern workflow of using forks, PRs in a web UI, etc is tedious and annoying. Making kernel development and maintaining more accesible to younger people would increase the pool of potential maintainers.

> Making kernel development and maintaining more accesible to younger people would increase the pool of potential maintainers. Is there an established open source project out there that originally used a mailing list or some other review software like gerrit, reviewboard, or phabricator, that transitioned to Github or Gitlab and actually increased the number of contributors and maintainers?

I could be wrong but ReactOS?

Re: 'It's hard to find maintainers': Linus Torvalds ponders Linux's future

#25

Post by aSplash0fDerp »

Chyzwar wrote: post #18
aSplash0fDerp wrote: post #8

A few points irk me on "the beginning of the end" conjecture in modern technology, rather than focusing on "as one door closes, another one opens" philosophies that keep it all going. If I were to do coffee with Linus, I would tell him to fork the kernel and cleancode a kernel for the future (and take the reins), while letting the complexities of the current kernel continue to flourish in its present form (possibly s…

Linux is successful because of: "WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE". It is Linus policy and work with community that made it most popular OS.

Well, with all of the swinging C.o.C. puns available, I'll tread safely and just point out L.T. never seemed to be about compromising quality over making people happy. Solid state does not have squeaky wheels.... Somethings amiss here....

Re: 'It's hard to find maintainers': Linus Torvalds ponders Linux's future

#26

Post by ssivark »

Barrin92 wrote: post #20
ssivark wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that linux is a 25+ year old project with established practices which might well outlast fads of web-driven development which might change every few years. Yes, Github/etc provide a friendlier interface for newbies ( and might well be worth considering seriously ) but note that there is almost no open source project that is on the same scale of collaboration complexity as the linux kernel, and it is far…

There's no need to rely on a third party provider given that it's possible to host say, Gitlab yourself. For a project of the size of the linux kernel that's more than a worthwhile investment.

In this context it’s wise to move conservatively. Gitlab has “come of age” only in the last few years. We see that KDE is now moving. If that works well, I wouldn’t be surprised if other OSS projects slowly start migrating.

Remember that there is heavy organizational inertia and culture on the LKML. Moving to Gitlab is practically akin to gutting that and beginning a fresh project with forked code — the kind of cultural makeover that most companies don’t survive, and won’t do unless they’re forced to. And maintaining starting culture is even more crucial for volunteer-driven projects than for corporate projects with very different incentives.

Re: 'It's hard to find maintainers': Linus Torvalds ponders Linux's future

#27

Post by ta17711771 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #20
ssivark wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that linux is a 25+ year old project with established practices which might well outlast fads of web-driven development which might change every few years. Yes, Github/etc provide a friendlier interface for newbies ( and might well be worth considering seriously ) but note that there is almost no open source project that is on the same scale of collaboration complexity as the linux kernel, and it is far…

There's no need to rely on a third party provider given that it's possible to host say, Gitlab yourself. For a project of the size of the linux kernel that's more than a worthwhile investment.

Or Gitea!

Re: 'It's hard to find maintainers': Linus Torvalds ponders Linux's future

#29

Post by effie »

kyran_adept wrote: post #4

I think Linus is at fault here. Having a PR process that requires sending a patch over email, email threads done with super old mailing list software, etc instead of the more modern workflow of using forks, PRs in a web UI, etc is tedious and annoying. Making kernel development and maintaining more accesible to younger people would increase the pool of potential maintainers.

Modern does not mean better. Email-based collaboration is most welcoming to new people and good enough for the regular participants. I for one do not want to create an account and learn how some slow web application works for each project when I can do with sending an email.

Re: 'It's hard to find maintainers': Linus Torvalds ponders Linux's future

#30

Post by effie »

bitwize wrote: post #19

If Linus wants a maintainer he can just sign kernel maintainership duties over to the entity that will end up with them anyway: Red Hat.

Why would Red Hat want to maintain all of kernel subsystems? They care about some of them, not all.
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