On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble • Hacker News Board

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#21

Post by nickb » Sat, Jul 05, 2008, 3:56 PM UTC

The big issue that Google has (incidentally the same issue that MS went through) is the two classes of employees that they now have and the resentment and disconnect between the two groups. The two groups, of course, are those who are millionaires and are 'fully vested' and those new googlers who are not millionaires (and probably never will become millionaires). The latter group relies on a salary to live in a very expensive area and they count on every perk as a way to reduce their bills so they can make the ends meet each month. One site recently showed that average salary at Google is around $110K. In the valley, that's not a lot when you factor in the cost of living. So this increase in daycare is not a big deal to all those millionaires and yet it is a huge increase to those that can't afford it.

As Google matures and they start cutting even more of these perks, the two groups will start growing even further apart. It's a serious organizational issue and Google will need to tackle it quickly.

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#22

Post by jawngee » Sat, Jul 05, 2008, 4:01 PM UTC

Didn't anyone learn anything from Bubble 1?

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#23

Post by davidw » Sat, Jul 05, 2008, 4:05 PM UTC

cpr wrote: post #18

I know one shouldn't question orthodoxy, but it seems insane to me to have children and then dump them all day, from a young age, with strangers. What's the point of having them if you're not raising them?

As the parent of a 2 month old, it's a difficult question we're facing right now. Who? How? When? Should my wife, with a doctorate in biochemistry, abandon her career completely and stay home? Should I? I'm not enthusiastic about those options. Should we hire someone? Not wild about that either. I think the best would be to kind of try and switch off, but it's going to require a lot of flexibility, and perhaps earning less money. The second is probably ok, depending on wherever it is we settle, the second may not be forthcoming from many employers. Sigh...

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#24

Post by condor » Sat, Jul 05, 2008, 4:07 PM UTC

fiaz wrote: post #13

From the article: "Meanwhile, someone at Google woke up one day and realized that the company was subsidizing each child to the tune of $37,000 a year — which nobody had noticed up until then — compared with the $12,000-a-year average subsidy of other big Silicon Valley companies like Cisco Systems and Oracle." It seems that Google was quite generous over the years and finally realized that given the difficult econom…

It seems that google was generous in the way a company is generous by having a policy to pay for traveling employees' hotel stays at the Ritz, and when it learns that they are paying 4x more than competitors who have employees stay at the Marriot, changes its policy by having employees stay at the Ritz but charging them to cover some of the subsidy, instead of changing their policy and paying for employees to stay at a lower priced hotel. Apologies for the looong sentence.

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#25

Post by lisper » Sat, Jul 05, 2008, 4:38 PM UTC

davidw wrote: post #23

cpr wrote: post #18

I know one shouldn't question orthodoxy, but it seems insane to me to have children and then dump them all day, from a young age, with strangers. What's the point of having them if you're not raising them?

As the parent of a 2 month old, it's a difficult question we're facing right now. Who? How? When? Should my wife, with a doctorate in biochemistry, abandon her career completely and stay home? Should I? I'm not enthusiastic about those options. Should we hire someone? Not wild about that either. I think the best would be to kind of try and switch off, but it's going to require a lot of flexibility, and perhaps earnin…

With all due respect, did it never occur to you to get this all figured out BEFORE you had kids?

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#26

Post by gaius » Sat, Jul 05, 2008, 4:51 PM UTC

ivankirigin wrote: post #19

I've always paid for our day care. But this is a bad idea because googlers would be more comfortable and spend more time working if day care were right there at work. Near work or near home are the two most convenient places. I'm told Mountain View is a cluster fuck for day care. Of course they are missing a bigger opportunity in improving education here. Like universities, google should be experimenting with differe…

google should be experimenting with different kinds of education

Not quite true; Google is legally obligated to act in the best interests of its shareholders, and only that. That's true for any public company, and the board can go to jail if they aren't seen to be doing that. With great riches comes great responsibility...

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#27

Post by ivankirigin » Sat, Jul 05, 2008, 4:53 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #26

ivankirigin wrote: post #19

I've always paid for our day care. But this is a bad idea because googlers would be more comfortable and spend more time working if day care were right there at work. Near work or near home are the two most convenient places. I'm told Mountain View is a cluster fuck for day care. Of course they are missing a bigger opportunity in improving education here. Like universities, google should be experimenting with differe…

google should be experimenting with different kinds of education Not quite true; Google is legally obligated to act in the best interests of its shareholders, and only that. That's true for any public company, and the board can go to jail if they aren't seen to be doing that. With great riches comes great responsibility...

It's a huge business opportunity.

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#28

Post by Create » Sat, Jul 05, 2008, 4:56 PM UTC

davidw wrote: post #23

cpr wrote: post #18

I know one shouldn't question orthodoxy, but it seems insane to me to have children and then dump them all day, from a young age, with strangers. What's the point of having them if you're not raising them?

As the parent of a 2 month old, it's a difficult question we're facing right now. Who? How? When? Should my wife, with a doctorate in biochemistry, abandon her career completely and stay home? Should I? I'm not enthusiastic about those options. Should we hire someone? Not wild about that either. I think the best would be to kind of try and switch off, but it's going to require a lot of flexibility, and perhaps earnin…

Who? How? When?

You. The way you made her. The Famous 20% time?

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#29

Post by gaius » Sat, Jul 05, 2008, 4:58 PM UTC

shimonrura wrote: post #14

gaius wrote: post #8

The problem with flat organizations like Google is that they aren't really flat at all; all that happens is the org chart is hidden rather than out in the open. This story is nothing to do with daycare per se; it's to do with the crackpot ideological ideas of one individual who is very powerful on the hidden org chart, and is abusing her position to further her own social engineering experiments.

I think it also gives a clear example of out how brittle "don't be evil" truly is, when administered by a "management committee" consisting of people who are mostly multimillionaires. Perhaps a more equitable and user-responsive way to provide day care would be to let local offices or workgroups organize their own childcare groups, with some degree of corporate subsidy and other support.

You know, Marie Antoinette is famous for saying "then let them eat cake" when told that the poor of Paris had no bread. That wasn't her being cruel; she had been raised in such luxury that she simply couldn't comprehend that there was no food at all to be had outside of her cloistered world. The pre-IPO Googlers have all the characteristics of an aristocracy now...

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#30

Post by gaius » Sat, Jul 05, 2008, 5:01 PM UTC

ivankirigin wrote: post #27

gaius wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

google should be experimenting with different kinds of education Not quite true; Google is legally obligated to act in the best interests of its shareholders, and only that. That's true for any public company, and the board can go to jail if they aren't seen to be doing that. With great riches comes great responsibility...

It's a huge business opportunity.

If Google entered the education business its shareholders would (rightly) wonder what its competitive advantage in that market would be, and whether the margins (return on capital) would be more or less than its existing businesses. Seriously, what could Google bring to the table here?