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Europeans' trust in US as world leader collapses during pandemic

theguardian.com

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Re: Europeans' trust in US as world leader collapses during pandemic

#21

Post by snogaraleal »

megameter wrote: post #14
onyva wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s the clash with reality that might be transformative. For good or bad.

Being able to observe my own boomer parents firsthand, they really want to buy whatever story makes the country look good. They look online but only within a certain set of conservative commentators and more recently a bit of foreign news(Sky Australia). But they have a definite kind of answer they're seeking. They regularly spend over an hour discussing news with the goal of, in essence, being upset about whatever s…

I'm not an American. Many of us foreigners watching the US think that what's killing you people isn't Trump himself, but the obsession that "progressives" have with that man.

Democrats have spent years hating on Trump instead of building a good case for the 2020 election.

Why have a solid candidate and a solid policy package when instead you can have a senile corpse that can't put a sentence together, partnering with quasi-marxists that want to dismantle the rule of law.

The democrats achieved what nobody thought possible. They made Trump look sane.

Re: Europeans' trust in US as world leader collapses during pandemic

#22

Post by onyva »

snogaraleal wrote: post #21
megameter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to observe my own boomer parents firsthand, they really want to buy whatever story makes the country look good. They look online but only within a certain set of conservative commentators and more recently a bit of foreign news(Sky Australia). But they have a definite kind of answer they're seeking. They regularly spend over an hour discussing news with the goal of, in essence, being upset about whatever s…

I'm not an American. Many of us foreigners watching the US think that what's killing you people isn't Trump himself, but the obsession that "progressives" have with that man. Democrats have spent years hating on Trump instead of building a good case for the 2020 election. Why have a solid candidate and a solid policy package when instead you can have a senile corpse that can't put a sentence together, partnering with…

I guess you haven’t been watching much TV during Obama’s time in the White House. The GOP post-policy strategy is just about opposing and nothing else. This was the case since the democrats made it clear with Obama that Republicans got nothing to offer to the American people other than destroying the economy Democrats built.

Also, you might be European but trump is loathed here (Western Europe) probably more than he is in the USA.

Re: Europeans' trust in US as world leader collapses during pandemic

#23

Post by rasz »

onyva wrote: post #12
fallingfrog wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll bet that the news in the USSR was uniformly optimistic right up to the end. When it all falls apart, it will happen quickly. I don’t watch network tv but it sounds like there are going to be a lot of very surprised boomers out there.

I think it’s the clash with reality that might be transformative. For good or bad.

Reminds me of a cult classic Polish dark comedy filmed under the iron curtain, 1981 Mis. It had a scene involving a sport team visiting west for the first time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk2SqlL3Vt0&feature=youtu.be... Sports club President monologue goes like this:

"You are going to the capital of a capitalist country. This country may have its plusses. The point is, however, that the plusses shouldn't blind you to the minusses!"

(„Jedziecie do stolicy kraju kapitalistycznego, który to kraj ma być może nawet tam i swoje plusy. Rozchodzi się jednak o to, żeby te plusy nie przesłoniły wam minusów!”)

Iron curtain fell 8 years after making this movie.

Re: Europeans' trust in US as world leader collapses during pandemic

#24

Post by snogaraleal »

onyva wrote: post #22
snogaraleal wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an American. Many of us foreigners watching the US think that what's killing you people isn't Trump himself, but the obsession that "progressives" have with that man. Democrats have spent years hating on Trump instead of building a good case for the 2020 election. Why have a solid candidate and a solid policy package when instead you can have a senile corpse that can't put a sentence together, partnering with…

I guess you haven’t been watching much TV during Obama’s time in the White House. The GOP post-policy strategy is just about opposing and nothing else. This was the case since the democrats made it clear with Obama that Republicans got nothing to offer to the American people other than destroying the economy Democrats built. Also, you might be European but trump is loathed here (Western Europe) probably more than he…

Disclaimer: I'm not a big fan of Trump

The job of the political opposition is to oppose. What the democrats have done in the last 3 years is a whole new level of bitching. And they haven't learned anything, they seem to be following the same strategy as in 2016. Believe me that insulting the electorate to their face isn't a very good tactic. The polling situation isn't very different from 2016, but the arrogance blinds them.

I'm from an Italian-Spanish family that emigrated to South America during World War II. I lived in Europe for 5 years, in Sweden (study abroad), and I'm a European citizen.

I'm very aware of how much Europeans despise Trump. I'm also aware of how much time and energy Europeans dedicate to American politics that should be dedicated to European politics.

In a way, the Trump obsession is also destroying Europe.

Here's a list of things that Europe needs to address urgently and that the European press doesn't discuss because it's either too ignorant or too "politically correct".

- Intra-eurozone balance of payments

- Bank leverage and household debt in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Netherlands

- Debt mutualization, also known as "Eurobond"

- Uncoordinated fiscal policy that makes Luxembourg and Ireland suck up all the capital

- Runaway government deficits in the south

- Dollar-denominated debt and shortage of dollar liquidity

- Border security of the outer borders of Schengen (Frontex)

- Energy dependency, especially from Russia

- Chinese corporate takeovers

- Need to get real about defense spending, NATO won't babysit Europe forever (unless you PAY)

- Corruption in Eastern Europe, especially Ukraine

Re: Europeans' trust in US as world leader collapses during pandemic

#25

Post by onyva »

snogaraleal wrote: post #24
onyva wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you haven’t been watching much TV during Obama’s time in the White House. The GOP post-policy strategy is just about opposing and nothing else. This was the case since the democrats made it clear with Obama that Republicans got nothing to offer to the American people other than destroying the economy Democrats built. Also, you might be European but trump is loathed here (Western Europe) probably more than he…

Disclaimer: I'm not a big fan of Trump The job of the political opposition is to oppose. What the democrats have done in the last 3 years is a whole new level of bitching. And they haven't learned anything, they seem to be following the same strategy as in 2016. Believe me that insulting the electorate to their face isn't a very good tactic. The polling situation isn't very different from 2016, but the arrogance blin…

>> The job of the political opposition is to oppose.

If that were the case than there’s no point in having a political system, is there?

Regardless, we’re back in the false equivalences territory. The GOP doesn’t have any policies. It’s a block of resentment that’s not even trying anymore to pretend.

The democrats have policies and as you say, they do their job and oppose (based on their policies). They don’t oppose for the sake of opposition like you’re suggesting. They have policies they seem to be able to articulate and stand behind.

Republicans don’t. Not any more at least not since they’ve lost two election cycles to Obama.

Your problems and complaints about the EU are not relevant to the discussion. Opposition to trump is based on his action, or inaction mostly and deliberate policies written by lobbyists and white supremacists. I’d say that’s a reason to be busy opposing him.

Ps you’re. Unless your talking genetics, how does this qualify you as a “European”?

Re: Europeans' trust in US as world leader collapses during pandemic

#26

Post by snogaraleal »

onyva wrote: post #25
snogaraleal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I'm not a big fan of Trump The job of the political opposition is to oppose. What the democrats have done in the last 3 years is a whole new level of bitching. And they haven't learned anything, they seem to be following the same strategy as in 2016. Believe me that insulting the electorate to their face isn't a very good tactic. The polling situation isn't very different from 2016, but the arrogance blin…

>> The job of the political opposition is to oppose. If that were the case than there’s no point in having a political system, is there? Regardless, we’re back in the false equivalences territory. The GOP doesn’t have any policies. It’s a block of resentment that’s not even trying anymore to pretend. The democrats have policies and as you say, they do their job and oppose (based on their policies). They don’t oppose…

>> If that were the case than there’s no point in having a political system, is there?

Yes there is. It’s like court, you have prosecution and defense.

>> They don’t oppose for the sake of opposition like you’re suggesting.

I didn’t suggest that they “oppose for the sake of opposition”. I said they oppose because that’s their job, to keep the current government “in check”.

>> Your problems and complaints about the EU are not relevant to the discussion.

They’re not complaints, they’re observations. Some of the items, not all, like defense and dollar liquidity are very relevant because of the geopolitical interplay.

>> Unless your talking genetics, how does this qualify you as a “European”?

I didn’t say I was European. I said I was a European citizen. You see, holding a European citizenship makes you a European citizen. I even voted in the last EU parliament elections.

Re: Europeans' trust in US as world leader collapses during pandemic

#27

Post by dx034 »

agustif wrote: post #6
dx034 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hollywood is an extremely powerful marketing tool, exporting the American patriotism around the world. Movies that involve the military also tend to paint a very positive picture of the US military. And those movies and series is what kids and teenagers around the world grow up with. Whereas to see poverty, homelessness or infrastructure problems you actually have to travel to the US.

CIA will edit those scripts to be lookin' good too. Fock!

Not sure about CIA but heard the military let's film studios use equipment (up to tanks and planes) for free as long as they have a say on how they are portrayed. That's a powerful incentive.
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