Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Need your opinion on PadKite, the first multitouch mobile mouse...shoot

padkite.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 36 posts

Re: Need your opinion on PadKite, the first multitouch mobile mouse...shoot

#21

Post by JoseVigil »

pero wrote: post #8

So I've got this installed and from the looks of it, it's a web browser with innovative interfacing--or am I missing something? And like someone else already pointed out, one handed control is the holy grail here...

Hi pero,

We infact we implemented Padkite to be controlled with a single finger but we left it aside cause multitouch gave more power. The problem was that the selection gestures where not that good with single finger cause you need to coordinate. What did work very well was the navigation experience and basic stuff.

Do you think we should include an optional single finger model on the settings?. It works like this: Drag, lift finger to select below and do a gesture with same finger. All in one hand.

What do you think?. Let me know man, I am intrigued.

Re: Need your opinion on PadKite, the first multitouch mobile mouse...shoot

#22

Post by JoseVigil »

zachrose wrote: post #18

What if this is a solution in need of a more interesting problem? I don't remember who said this, but hidden gestures in a multitouch device have the exact same learning curve as command line: they are equally magical, efficient, and completely insane in the eyes of people who haven't learned them yet. That's not to say that the command line is hard (it's not), or that Bash is arbitrary and random (it has definite sy…

Hi zachrose,

Very interesting conversation, waited years for having them. Its good to see smart guys around.

Gestures are old, Palm graffiti did a lot already but was a different approach, they worked alone, not for the service of other gestures like ours. We are bringing in new gestures and overcoming the imagery gesture paradigm. First the selection gestures that we are "inventing" product of the offset pointer and the two button areas. And second type the graffiti type, which are a set of three to six gestures that the user will learn if he wants.

The novelty of what we are doing (quite a lot in terms of interaction) is that our graffiti type (we call it our GestureKit, in fact is a brand) works in conjunction and coordination with the selection gestures. It is an ongoing process of doing three movements, drag-select-gesture which makes it very fast and productive. The user could skip the latter but once the selection gesture finger is lifted up and the content selected is very handy to do a last touch down and make a gesture to command, for example the "S" for search on Google. It could be whatever really.

Try it and tell me what you think please. These are not just command line gesture, they belong to an interactive system that all parts together make things much faster. The users know already to do that by other means, we are offering to do it faster.

Thanks lot.

Re: Need your opinion on PadKite, the first multitouch mobile mouse...shoot

#23

Post by Anm »

I agree with zachrose, but that doesn't mean there isn't a market for power users who will appreciate this work.

My concern is that the primary multi-touch gestures choosen are two handed. Unlike pinch, stretch, and swipe, holding onw finger in place while you begin another gesture require more coordination than most people can do with one hand. In my mind, this leaves it out of the realm of phone-sized devices on the go. It probably works great when working on a table or desk, which means it is really the mouse for a tablet environment. In that market, you may have a real winner.

Re: Need your opinion on PadKite, the first multitouch mobile mouse...shoot

#24

Post by JoseVigil »

Anm wrote: post #23

I agree with zachrose, but that doesn't mean there isn't a market for power users who will appreciate this work. My concern is that the primary multi-touch gestures choosen are two handed. Unlike pinch, stretch, and swipe, holding onw finger in place while you begin another gesture require more coordination than most people can do with one hand. In my mind, this leaves it out of the realm of phone-sized devices on th…

Hi Anm,

Years of work worth reading your feedback, appreciate very much.

I am very interested what you say here: "My concern is that the primary multi-touch gestures chosen are two handed.". I think that ultimately there will have to be a standard for handed, but an evolved set of gestures. I am working on that, you know why?

I strongly believe that there has to be a balance in terms of handed gestures to execute on what has been selected (our innovation, do a gesture on a selection). There will be a time when gestures have to evolve to cope with demanding tasks at home with multiple touch devices in almost all glass/crystal/plastic surfaces, so there is going to be plenty of need. New types of gestures that can be learned and reproduced fast. Nor the palm graffiti type nor the imagery type (pinch, stretch, and swipe). New types.

Something is in the middle that can be worldwide interpreted and very easy to execute, that is the key. As an example we created the Twitter peak ">" gesture cause is fast and symbolic. That creation process has to be applied many more times again for new gestures with an implicit action and a symbol. Also the key can be to synthesize the gesture to a minimal expression.

Also, once the user has done the gesture four times, the fifth goes on its own. So its all about learning curve. We humans have a great ability to remember mechanical movements. I would love to have a more consistent scientific background. Any doctor around?.

This is the way I think we can overcome the real problem and concern you are pointing out and that I agree 100%. Of course tablet will be a superb place to run PadKite.

Great feedback, really.

Re: Need your opinion on PadKite, the first multitouch mobile mouse...shoot

#25

Post by fuzzythinker »

darren_ wrote: post #14

It looks fiddly for constant use, but if it were toggleable, provided it's quick to invoke (and difficult to accidentally invoke) it'd be great for the situations where small links are a pain. Note that in this case it has to be less effort to invoke than a zoom action. I'm not sure how much people hate animated gifs but you might want to consider adding a larger one, because I didn't get how the basic operation of t…

Like the toggleable idea. Since a big part of it is about gestures, a '^' gesture (their logo) can toggle it on, and 'v' for off.

Re: Need your opinion on PadKite, the first multitouch mobile mouse...shoot

#26

Post by JoseVigil »

fuzzythinker wrote: post #25
darren_ wrote: post #14

It looks fiddly for constant use, but if it were toggleable, provided it's quick to invoke (and difficult to accidentally invoke) it'd be great for the situations where small links are a pain. Note that in this case it has to be less effort to invoke than a zoom action. I'm not sure how much people hate animated gifs but you might want to consider adding a larger one, because I didn't get how the basic operation of t…

Like the toggleable idea. Since a big part of it is about gestures, a '^' gesture (their logo) can toggle it on, and 'v' for off.

Do you have a hammer in your hand fuzzythinker?. Cause I think you hit the nail on the head.

Definitely our logo and symbol '^' means to fly and that is what the app gives, power to fly. Invoking it on a friendly scenario for you with that gesture and using it would be really cool right?.

Many good ideas guys. Lots of stuff to consider today.

Excellent!. Lets fly!. Kind regards.

Re: Need your opinion on PadKite, the first multitouch mobile mouse...shoot

#27

Post by revorad »

This looks cool but why would people use this instead of pinch,zoom,click?

I feel the whole point of touch interfaces is to move away from using a mouse. Instead of mobile touchscreen devices replicating desktop gestures, websites will move towards designs more suitable for the new dominant platforms. OnSwipe is a case in point.

The kite metaphor is interesting though. If this multimouse idea doesn't fly (pun?), you could turn it into a kite wars game. Use proximity sensors (it's the in thing) to pick up fights with people near you. Sharing photos with strangers is not for me, but I will pick up a good kite fight challenge any time.

Good luck!

Re: Need your opinion on PadKite, the first multitouch mobile mouse...shoot

#28

Post by JoseVigil »

revorad wrote: post #27

This looks cool but why would people use this instead of pinch,zoom,click? I feel the whole point of touch interfaces is to move away from using a mouse. Instead of mobile touchscreen devices replicating desktop gestures, websites will move towards designs more suitable for the new dominant platforms. OnSwipe is a case in point. The kite metaphor is interesting though. If this multimouse idea doesn't fly (pun?), you…

Because you can go faster.

The point is we want people to continue doing pinch, zoom and click so that padkite is used only when needed. In fact outside the circle you can do all that you already do.

It is not padkite OR the other thing, its padkite PLUS the other thing, which is very handy. What is good has to be kept.

But if you want to fly.....you just invoke it.

Thanks very much.

Re: Need your opinion on PadKite, the first multitouch mobile mouse...shoot

#29

Post by revorad »

JoseVigil wrote: post #28
revorad wrote: post #27

This looks cool but why would people use this instead of pinch,zoom,click? I feel the whole point of touch interfaces is to move away from using a mouse. Instead of mobile touchscreen devices replicating desktop gestures, websites will move towards designs more suitable for the new dominant platforms. OnSwipe is a case in point. The kite metaphor is interesting though. If this multimouse idea doesn't fly (pun?), you…

Because you can go faster. The point is we want people to continue doing pinch, zoom and click so that padkite is used only when needed. In fact outside the circle you can do all that you already do. It is not padkite OR the other thing, its padkite PLUS the other thing, which is very handy. What is good has to be kept. But if you want to fly.....you just invoke it. Thanks very much.

Ok I just watched all of your demo videos again. Like others have pointed out, this is for power users. The basic usage is complex enough, you have a TON of other features.

A good demo video of someone using an app in an everyday situation, clearly showing them holding the phone in one hand (not keeping it on a table), will really help showcase padkite's power.

You've clearly built some amazing tech, but you need to educate people on how to use it. You should seriously consider making a game which uses these gestures, so people learn the gestures while having fun.

The Wii primed people for the Kinect.

Re: Need your opinion on PadKite, the first multitouch mobile mouse...shoot

#30

Post by JoseVigil »

revorad wrote: post #29
JoseVigil wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you can go faster. The point is we want people to continue doing pinch, zoom and click so that padkite is used only when needed. In fact outside the circle you can do all that you already do. It is not padkite OR the other thing, its padkite PLUS the other thing, which is very handy. What is good has to be kept. But if you want to fly.....you just invoke it. Thanks very much.

Ok I just watched all of your demo videos again. Like others have pointed out, this is for power users. The basic usage is complex enough, you have a TON of other features. A good demo video of someone using an app in an everyday situation, clearly showing them holding the phone in one hand (not keeping it on a table), will really help showcase padkite's power. You've clearly built some amazing tech, but you need to…

Hi revorad,

Absolutely right about the video with the showcase. We are already working on a new script for it. These are the things that we will take care of before we launch. Thanks lot for the comment.

As regarding the game, I have already thought that but its a very drafted idea yet. I think this type of HTML game could help http://mrdoob.com/projects/chromeexperiments/ball_pool/

We will also put more tiny links on the home page to pay with in order to both enhance the concept and provide useful data to the user and small ads.

What do you think?.

Superb feedback.

Post reply on HN