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There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

de.ifixit.com

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Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#21

Post by Barrin92 »

switch007 wrote: post #15
apexalpha wrote: post #10

Let's hope this catches on just like the energy labels did. After the EU forced manufacturers to improve energy use in their devices it soon improved situations for everyone on this planet. Many other countries follow EU regulations directly or indirectly so let's hope for some easily repairable products in the future!

> After the EU forced manufacturers to improve energy use in their devices it soon improved situations for everyone on this planet. I don't know (talking as fairly pro-EU kind of person). I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C and vacuum cleaners that actually picked up dirt. But the EU are only partly to blame. Companies are relentless in their pursuit of cutting production costs. Going "green" ju…

I think this should largely be viewed as a temporary inconvencience. These limitations also give huge incentive to manufacturers to come up with new innovations that produce better performance with environmental and energy constraints in mind.

I always feel the alternative is the web, where everything gets twice as large every few years. if washing machines were as free-wheeling as webapps I can only assume one would fill the entire garage

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#22

Post by fsflover »

princekolt wrote: post #13
fsflover wrote: post #4

I hope it will finally force Apple to become more climate-friendly. Their scores in phone repairability are disappointigly low: https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability .

Every android phone in that page has a score lower or equal to all the iPhones. This has to be a joke, right? Example: Galaxy S20 Ultra [3/10]: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+S20+Ultra+Tea... iPhone 11 Pro Max [6/10]: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+11+Pro+Max+Teardown/1... But sure, lets keep bashing Apple because that gives us all the internet kudos, am I right?

Although you are right and this is a problem, android does not in general claim to be climate-friendly, while Apple does.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#23

Post by nolok »

switch007 wrote: post #15
apexalpha wrote: post #10

Let's hope this catches on just like the energy labels did. After the EU forced manufacturers to improve energy use in their devices it soon improved situations for everyone on this planet. Many other countries follow EU regulations directly or indirectly so let's hope for some easily repairable products in the future!

> After the EU forced manufacturers to improve energy use in their devices it soon improved situations for everyone on this planet. I don't know (talking as fairly pro-EU kind of person). I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C and vacuum cleaners that actually picked up dirt. But the EU are only partly to blame. Companies are relentless in their pursuit of cutting production costs. Going "green" ju…

> I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C

I will be honest with you this one I just don't understand. My washing machine is A+ in EU norms and it heats properly. Maybe you bought a not so good model ?

If anything those norms should be re-evaluated with new tougher levels now, you have to go out of your way to buy something that's not at least A (which is good and it means it worked, but also that it's time to ask for more).

> vacuum cleaners that actually picked up dirt

Again, if you buy a Dyson that follows EU norms it still works great. But if at the same time as those norms arrived you also switched from being main brand product to cheaper off brands, then you're confusing the two.

It's easy to find a vacuum cleaner that works great, but they're not at the same price as most models, because the market aligned with the cheap ones that people actually buy.

Yes, LIDL and similar often have special sales on vacuum cleaner, yes they're frankly cheap, and no, they're not as good as "the vacuum cleaners of old". They're barely adequate, which is fine for most customers and allow a cheap price, that's why they sell this.

> And these newer machines feature more plastic parts, are harder to repair and generally considered disposable (e.g. I'm happy that a dishwasher/washing machine/fridge lasts 5 years). How's that good for the planet?

That is quite literally the point of the anti waste regulation (the last one and the future one), and of the repair law being discussed here.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#24

Post by _ph_ »

Whenever repairability of modern electronic devices is discussed, I have to look at my mechanical wristwatch. Yes, there is an enormeous amount of technology integrated into a smartphone or compact laptop, but my wristwatch contains over 100 moving parts in a tiny volume. And still, every trained watchmaker can open and service it. It requires specialized tools, but those have been avialable to watchmakers for hundreds of years. A time traveller could buy a current Rolex and have it serviced in 1950, possibly even in 1850. The watchmakers of those times wouldn't have access to the right spare parts - those are surprisingly high-tech, but basic service would be possible.

And that is why I cannot stand the current state of repairs in the electronic world. I am especially looking at Apple in this respect, because they have demonstrated a surprising skill at making things repairable, which they want to be serviceable. Just look at the brilliant mount for the USB ports in the new Air.

While end-user serviceability might not be desirable for something highly-integrated, the benchmark really should be whether someone trained like a watch-maker has the ability to service a device. Which would be great for the local economy wherever in the world a customer is, because traditionally most towns would have at least one watchmaker, a well paid professional who would keep the money local vs. creating more electronic waste and shipping a new device around the world.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#25

Post by nolok »

princekolt wrote: post #13
fsflover wrote: post #4

I hope it will finally force Apple to become more climate-friendly. Their scores in phone repairability are disappointigly low: https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability .

Every android phone in that page has a score lower or equal to all the iPhones. This has to be a joke, right? Example: Galaxy S20 Ultra [3/10]: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+S20+Ultra+Tea... iPhone 11 Pro Max [6/10]: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+11+Pro+Max+Teardown/1... But sure, lets keep bashing Apple because that gives us all the internet kudos, am I right?

I hate how "waterproof" has come to mean "you can't fix this phone anymore". Samsung up to at least the S7 used to be decent about changing the camera module, the screen, the battery, ... But now you can't do anything.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#26

Post by moksly »

Vinnl wrote: post #14

I have a Fairphone [1], for which repairability was a major focus (the latest two models are the first smartphones to get a perfect 10 from iFixit, IIRC). At some point, it started having some issues. Likewise, a friend of mine who had one wanted a new phone as well. By combining parts from mine and his phone, I now have a properly working phone again with very little effort. This is so important. (That said, the rea…

This is anecdotal, but everyone in my circle of friends who bought a fairphone2 (2015) has replaced it. Meanwhile my mom is still using my old iPhone 5s (2013). And my wife uses her iPhone SE(2016).

Hell the fact that they have released one in 2013, 2015 and 2019, kind of goes against their message doesn’t it?

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#27

Post by yangminded »

fsflover wrote: post #4

I hope it will finally force Apple to become more climate-friendly. Their scores in phone repairability are disappointigly low: https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability .

I don't think you understand how much easier it is to repair an iPhone compared to any other phone on the market (apart of niche products like the Fairphone which does a great job!).

If you open an iPhone, you will see a very well ordered and packaged arrangement of components. Most Android phones are a hot mess compared with it.

If you need a component for an iPhone, you can get it easily.

What I'm saying is not that electronics should not become more climate-friendly.

What I'm saying is that the focus on Apple is wrong. The business is the problem and companies like Samsung, Motorola, etc. are putting much worse devices on the market.

BTW: iPhones regularly get software updates for around 5 years. How's that for extending the lifetime of devices? Android phones are lucky to get significant software updates for more than one year.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#28

Post by mahesh_rm »

This looks clearly like a laudable effort and positive trend, but I can't avoid to foresee paradoxical scenarios along the lines of "I needed to replace my 3 years old perfectly functional fridge with repairability class F with a new one with repairability class D++"

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#29

Post by onli »

mrtksn wrote: post #18
fsflover wrote: post #4

I hope it will finally force Apple to become more climate-friendly. Their scores in phone repairability are disappointigly low: https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability .

Apple is surprisingly repearable and is a major factor driving device prices in the poorer countries. There are shops everywhere that would fix your iPhone at very reasonable prices. People expect to use the device for 3-5 five years since they pay multiple salaries to buy it in first place and pay it through the years. If that’s not environmentally friendly, I don’t know what it is.

Actually easily repairable phones like the Fairphone 3 or the Shift 6M. Or an older LG G3/G5.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#30

Post by raxxorrax »

switch007 wrote: post #15
apexalpha wrote: post #10

Let's hope this catches on just like the energy labels did. After the EU forced manufacturers to improve energy use in their devices it soon improved situations for everyone on this planet. Many other countries follow EU regulations directly or indirectly so let's hope for some easily repairable products in the future!

> After the EU forced manufacturers to improve energy use in their devices it soon improved situations for everyone on this planet. I don't know (talking as fairly pro-EU kind of person). I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C and vacuum cleaners that actually picked up dirt. But the EU are only partly to blame. Companies are relentless in their pursuit of cutting production costs. Going "green" ju…

> I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C and vacuum cleaners that actually picked up dirt.

This is a problem if you have one rule for different countries, although the EU should be praised that it made an effort at least.

In my region drinking water is no problem. On the contrary, due to washing machines and appliances using less water, waterworks needs to pump water through the pipes regularly to keep them clean. It is also advisable to do that in your home from time to time.

The vacuum cleaners decision was just bad in my opinion. You will take a longer time to use it which removes the energy advantages.

The lighting stuff they did was decent, although I think that light bulbs would have been a thing of the past without regulation due to high energy costs.

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