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Ask HN: A simple solution to limit surveillance capitalism?

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21–26 of 26 posts

Re: Ask HN: A simple solution to limit surveillance capitalism?

#21

Nobody is stopping you from never telling anyone your personal information.

My understanding is that the most important data is the data you don't share actively. Instead your browser / app sends it unbeknownst to you. You don't "tell" facebook where you click and how you scroll, but they have that data anyway. The only choice you have is not to use the products.

Re: Ask HN: A simple solution to limit surveillance capitalism?

#22
> Can we reduce “surveillance capitalism” by reducing the incentive to collect personal data?

No. There is a financial incentive and people tend to willingly give their personal data away for free, often for public exploitation.

I am working on solution for this though. My approach is to provide a social application that is point-to-point without any central service. It is inherently private and never anonymous. When people willingness give their data away it is only to somebody they know and encrypted from everyone else. I am starting with file sharing first (trying to wrap it up this week) and then will add messaging and media soon.

Re: Ask HN: A simple solution to limit surveillance capitalism?

#23
How much research have you done in political space? This sounds naive.

Far better to spoil the milk (like in that STNG episode) and prove the data gathered to be nonsense or at the very least useless. Fund a few white papers that say such a thing. Best in a few different disciplines. Research is going to be far cheaper and efficient and effective than political pressure (of which I suppose you have none to use).

Also, making this happen will take at least one hyper-charismatic individual, probably an older white man, several tens of millions of dollars to fund it and a fleet of students to make it happen. Just throwing those numbers out there, no research to back it up.

> simply ban

????

like simply asteroid mining?

Re: Ask HN: A simple solution to limit surveillance capitalism?

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's advocate: 2 advantages to targeted advertising. Targeted advertising if done correctly can connect people who want to buy stuff with people who produce stuff with a minimum of waste. People are able to waste less time and energy discovering what to buy and companies are able to waste less time and energy producing things that people don't want. Targeted advertising can also enable companies to effectively com…

>Targeted advertising if done correctly can connect people who want to buy stuff with people who produce stuff with a minimum of waste. What exactly is the waste? I'm assuming you're saying the advertiser doesn't "waste" money by advertising to folks he doesn't think will be receptive to his message. That may be true bit it's not necessarily a societal benefit. It's also most enriching the targeting companies, not sa…

> What exactly is the waste?

Companies are less likely to overproduce unwanted goods when the known buyers and sellers are easily predicted and/or connected. This is environmentally beneficial, for one. My argument was that targeted advertising helps that.

> This seems a very generous and ad friendly interpretation that ignores other costs.

The question "where do we draw the line for X to be illegal because of bad effects Y" can't be the job of the advertising industry to determine, because advertisers are not scientists and are only incidentally any type of educator. There is no advertising industry for illegal products; if a product or quantity thereof is harmful enough it should be illegal and outside the scope of the industry.

> If you don't by my product I'll lobby for laws you don't like in your jurisdiction?

Not laws ... but let me clarify: Advertising is done through the same medium as entertainment. Therefore, advertising contributes to determining the fate of those mediums, as most media-based entertainment products don't survive when they aren't largely financially supported. Targeted advertising can allow more localized entertainment to exist, thereby preventing monoculture.

Re: Ask HN: A simple solution to limit surveillance capitalism?

#25
This is not a problem with technology at all. It has to do with people's morality first and foremost. With Christianity dying in the western world we've found ourselves without a common ground on which we could build on. Values is what connects people fundamentally. If you have a situation in which - and this is the case right now - an average person thinks that his fellow human beings are just biological automatons, that there's no God, that one lives for the sake of satisfying oneself first and often only -- no wonder that this situation enables pathological turds to rise to the top of society. What they do to achieve that is not meritocracy, but exploitation of other people. Psychopaths are the new leadership. Hence the pathology like Surveillance Capitalism emerging on every corner.

Pardon me all that talking about God. Try to thing about it in purely logical terms. Values is something you need to make decisions (as qualifiers). Having none is far worst than deriving some from let's say Christianity. Or whatever source that has been proven to work for a prolonged amount of time in that area. Can be even Zoroastrianism, but it must be common and well respected.

The world looks like it is today not because people are stupid, or because like some say human nature is dark. That's not the case. It's been at least 50 years now when Cultural Marxism has started to seriously deploying their "march thru institutions". People in the US tend to know very little about it (there's not even one covers-it-all book on the topic in English), yet that one phenomena is almost solely responsible for the shape of our reality today. Not even the progress in science, nor politics, or the people wanting to live in a different, better way. All of that has been generated by a bunch of (I must say very intelligent) psychopaths who have found out how to level up psychological warfare with their methods coming down to (mostly) execution of the tactics of Critical Theory by Marcuse. They have found out how to modify human culture in a way that the society is going to start dividing itself into two tiers: commoners, and their masters. Sounds like a conspiracy theory, right? Unfortunately it isn't. That whole process is extremely well documented and everyone having enough motivation has a chance to achieve a proper level of understanding regarding what's been going on.

The cornerstone of Cultural Marxism as a model of managing societies is parasitism in every possible form. The masters feasting on the vital energy of commoners. Looking at the problem of Surveillance Capitalism thru that scope it becomes clear that its rise is the most natural thing in the world. It's going to be much worse than just selling data. Complete slavery for commoners is the end game and that is going to be achieved thru technology. Look at China and study outcomes of what's been going on there. They're just a test sandbox for what's planned for the rest of commoners.

Want to change / get rid of Surveillance Capitalism? Change back human culture in a way that people can either AGAIN care about the consequences of their actions or at least empower and trust their leaders who are going to do the only thing that can be done here to definitely solve the problem - kill the parasite. There's only one way for this civilization to win - it's thru a model in which everyone is going to take full responsibility for himself and his actions. How good are we with that you can easily answer yourself...

PS: I'm from Europe, so it's easier for us here to connect the dots thru reading sources in: German, French, Italian, Hungarian, Polish, Russian. Plus we can observe what the EU does on daily basis. Is it enough to mention that I've seen myself a portrait of Carl Marx on a corridor of the EU headquarters? It should be.

Whether you believe me or not is up to you. But one thing is sure even for a common Joe. There's something not OK with the world as it is today. I encourage you to find out for yourself.

Re: Ask HN: A simple solution to limit surveillance capitalism?

#26

This is not a problem with technology at all. It has to do with people's morality first and foremost. With Christianity dying in the western world we've found ourselves without a common ground on which we could build on. Values is what connects people fundamentally. If you have a situation in which - and this is the case right now - an average person thinks that his fellow human beings are just biological automatons,…

Here we go again. It took less than 5 minutes for the above post to be down-voted by a progressive guerilla of HN. Some people simply can't stand facts...

This only confirms that offering anything of meaningful value to people here (with some exceptions) is exactly casting pearls before swine. Please, enjoy doing more of that and surely you're going to have high quality content.

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