Create No-JavaScript friendly sites • Hacker News Board

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#21

Post by hundchenkatze » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:13 PM UTC

norenh wrote: post #9

Camillo wrote: post #2

I'd like to say that ship has sailed, but in this case it's more like the last rocket launched, Krypton was destroyed, and the last partisans of NoScript are trapped in the Dark Zone, or whatever the thing with General Zod was called. Not that big of a Superman fan.

I am one of those dinosaurs that still surf with javascript (mostly) disabled. I use uMatrix to control where I accept it from and my default is to allow none to load. A remarkable amount of sites still work and you will always need to load some to get certain functions to work. However, I am always amazed how lazy devs are when it comes to purely informational sites as there should be no need to require javascript.…

You can access Ars' comments without JS by using the forum.

https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewforum.php?f=2

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#22

Post by TedDoesntTalk » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:13 PM UTC

dmortin wrote: post #11

You can use a tracker blocklist, so you don't have to disable javascript: https://github.com/notracking/hosts-blocklists

This looks like a dns-based solution? Most people are not going to install pihole at home. Other dns-based solutions require per-device configuration, and when you have a family with a dozen or more devices, this does not scale.

That’s why ublock origin and friends are so popular.

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#23

Post by jchook » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:14 PM UTC

mdoms wrote: post #12

I absolutely agree that JS is over-used, but for anything other than very static content I generally am not interested in kowtowing to the strict "no JS" folks. Javascript has become a fundamental part of the web, and for the same reason I won't put in extra work to make my sites work in IE, I also will not put in extra work to make my sites work for (a vanishingly small number of) people who pre-emptively block one…

JavaScript poses a large security and privacy risk.

Think browser fingerprinting, XSS, JS-based analytics, poor or missing CSP + hijacked npm modules, etc.

I generally keep JS disabled as much as possible.

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#24

Post by chadlavi » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:14 PM UTC

Note that this example he gives is not accessible: https://codepen.io/victorcopque/pen/OVxRbq

A keyboard user cannot access the hidden checkbox that controls showing/hiding the menu.

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#25

Post by janpot » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:17 PM UTC

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #14

mdoms wrote: post #12

I absolutely agree that JS is over-used, but for anything other than very static content I generally am not interested in kowtowing to the strict "no JS" folks. Javascript has become a fundamental part of the web, and for the same reason I won't put in extra work to make my sites work in IE, I also will not put in extra work to make my sites work for (a vanishingly small number of) people who pre-emptively block one…

What percentage of city bus riders or public restaurant visitors do you think use the wheelchair ramp?

What percentage of people in wheelchairs are able to walk but choose not to?

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#26

Post by johncolanduoni » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:17 PM UTC

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #14

mdoms wrote: post #12

I absolutely agree that JS is over-used, but for anything other than very static content I generally am not interested in kowtowing to the strict "no JS" folks. Javascript has become a fundamental part of the web, and for the same reason I won't put in extra work to make my sites work in IE, I also will not put in extra work to make my sites work for (a vanishingly small number of) people who pre-emptively block one…

What percentage of city bus riders or public restaurant visitors do you think use the wheelchair ramp?

Screenreaders (including free and built in ones) have had JS support for quite a while. Using JS is very far from being the limiting factor for robust accessibility.

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#27

Post by AnonC » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:17 PM UTC

Similar to the general negative experience with many Electron apps, I hate the JavaScript based rendering experience on some sites. I get very frustrated with reddit (the new UI) and Facebook, both flashing an animation or empty rectangles for a long time and me realizing that the content isn’t going to load at all and hitting the reload button to coax it to render the best time. The experience I get on these sites and also some on (not all) React based sites (including Gatsby blogs) is jarring in ways I can’t explain well. Even the full page reload of years past doesn’t evoke such a feeling of uncertainty on whether the content will load or not.

Blocking JavaScript by default also makes for faster browsing on many sites. Sometimes it also bypasses all those Adblock Killer dialogs or paywall dialogs.

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#28

Post by 1v1id » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:19 PM UTC

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #14

mdoms wrote: post #12

I absolutely agree that JS is over-used, but for anything other than very static content I generally am not interested in kowtowing to the strict "no JS" folks. Javascript has become a fundamental part of the web, and for the same reason I won't put in extra work to make my sites work in IE, I also will not put in extra work to make my sites work for (a vanishingly small number of) people who pre-emptively block one…

What percentage of city bus riders or public restaurant visitors do you think use the wheelchair ramp?

There's a difference between a small percentage needing something and a small percentage wanting something, though. If all wheelchair users could turn off their handicap at any time with no consequence, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a wheelchair ramp anywhere.

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#29

Post by codegeek » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:19 PM UTC

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #14

mdoms wrote: post #12

I absolutely agree that JS is over-used, but for anything other than very static content I generally am not interested in kowtowing to the strict "no JS" folks. Javascript has become a fundamental part of the web, and for the same reason I won't put in extra work to make my sites work in IE, I also will not put in extra work to make my sites work for (a vanishingly small number of) people who pre-emptively block one…

What percentage of city bus riders or public restaurant visitors do you think use the wheelchair ramp?

In my opinion, that is not a fair comparison. Wheelchair ramp usage percentage may be small but they are built because of laws and helps people who actually need it. People are not disabled by choice.

Javascript disablers (and I have full sympathy as a dev. myself) are doing it by choice which is totally fine but it is still a choice, not a need.

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#30

Post by boring_twenties » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:24 PM UTC

mdoms wrote: post #12

I absolutely agree that JS is over-used, but for anything other than very static content I generally am not interested in kowtowing to the strict "no JS" folks. Javascript has become a fundamental part of the web, and for the same reason I won't put in extra work to make my sites work in IE, I also will not put in extra work to make my sites work for (a vanishingly small number of) people who pre-emptively block one…

> for anything other than very static content

Honestly, that would be a damn good start. Just the other day I took a look at a job posting here on HN. It was nothing more than the company logo and the text of the rec. After JS was enabled, that is. Before that it was just the plain text string "You need JS enabled to run this app." What fucking app, lol?