Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hiring Without Agencies - Lessons Learned

wip.engineroomapps.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 80 posts

Re: Hiring Without Agencies - Lessons Learned

#21

Post by gamble »

edderly wrote: post #19
jasonkester wrote: post #3

Is it possible that this experience was influenced in any way by the fact that they're trying to find a "Senior iPhone Developer" for under £40k? That's ~$65k, and thus roughly $100k shy of what you'd need to offer before you started to pique the interest of any good iPhone Developers in the current market.

The UK has relied for too long on relatively cheap but willing tech. labour. I believe one major factor that enabled this was the boom in home computing in the early 80s. I don't know whether it is fair to call this unique (to the UK), but it certainly helped to have the BBC heavily involved with the BBC Micro effort and even TV coverage: ' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Computer_Programme . I remember back then ev…

Yeah, programmer salaries in the UK seem very low. I'm Canadian, but my husband also has UK citizenship. We were contemplating a move to the UK, but it would have meant taking a significant pay cut, even though the cost-of-living was much higher and software jobs were clustered in the most expensive areas.

Ultimately it's the same problem that pushed my father-in-law, who was a programmer in London until the seventies, to emigrate to Canada. Not much seems to have changed.

Re: Hiring Without Agencies - Lessons Learned

#22

Post by ig1 »

edderly wrote: post #19
jasonkester wrote: post #3

Is it possible that this experience was influenced in any way by the fact that they're trying to find a "Senior iPhone Developer" for under £40k? That's ~$65k, and thus roughly $100k shy of what you'd need to offer before you started to pique the interest of any good iPhone Developers in the current market.

The UK has relied for too long on relatively cheap but willing tech. labour. I believe one major factor that enabled this was the boom in home computing in the early 80s. I don't know whether it is fair to call this unique (to the UK), but it certainly helped to have the BBC heavily involved with the BBC Micro effort and even TV coverage: ' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Computer_Programme . I remember back then ev…

The bump in CS uptake was due to the dotcom boom rather than any long term trend. CS still has a higher average salary than most other subjects.

Re: Hiring Without Agencies - Lessons Learned

#23

Post by edderly »

ig1 wrote: post #22
edderly wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK has relied for too long on relatively cheap but willing tech. labour. I believe one major factor that enabled this was the boom in home computing in the early 80s. I don't know whether it is fair to call this unique (to the UK), but it certainly helped to have the BBC heavily involved with the BBC Micro effort and even TV coverage: ' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Computer_Programme . I remember back then ev…

The bump in CS uptake was due to the dotcom boom rather than any long term trend. CS still has a higher average salary than most other subjects.

The boom had an effect, although the number of IT professionals grew (slowly) after the boom (see page 4 of the link), and I'm fairly sure it doesn't solely explain the collapse in Computing degree applicants.

Also, when looking at average salary consider the continuing growth in the number of people going to university. Also simultaneous collapse in the number of CS grads is likely to help maintain the higher average.

Re: Hiring Without Agencies - Lessons Learned

#24

Post by gcb »

shawnee_ wrote: post #13

I’ve got Google alerts setup for our ad, and I’m seeing it being cloned all over the place by different recruitment agencies. Basically, they copy your ad, remove all your details so candidates don’t know who you are, and then post it up all over the place. This happens for people who post resumes, too. My experience was so bad that I ended up removing my entire profile from LinkedIn after one-too-many harassing phon…

I've seen contractors come and go working at a fortune 500 and just recently I've learned of those practices...

Re: Hiring Without Agencies - Lessons Learned

#25

Post by ig1 »

edderly wrote: post #23
ig1 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bump in CS uptake was due to the dotcom boom rather than any long term trend. CS still has a higher average salary than most other subjects.

The boom had an effect, although the number of IT professionals grew (slowly) after the boom (see page 4 of the link), and I'm fairly sure it doesn't solely explain the collapse in Computing degree applicants. Also, when looking at average salary consider the continuing growth in the number of people going to university. Also simultaneous collapse in the number of CS grads is likely to help maintain the higher averag…

The papers actually quite weak, as there a strong distinction between IT and software development (and CS (G4xx) and IT degree), which the paper doesn't really pick up on. They make the mistake of using HESA data which classifies all IT degrees as computing.

Non-development IT roles in the UK have been dropping dramatically over the last decade due to outsourcing and automation while developer roles have been increasing (roughly 10,000/year).

Salary data in general has a relatively small impact of choice of subject. Most 16-18 years old have a very limited understanding of salaries by degree subject and are often under many false misapprehensions (for example thinking most law students will become lawyers). Choices are far more driven by cultural trends.

Re: Hiring Without Agencies - Lessons Learned

#26

Post by Jabbles »

jasonkester wrote: post #3

Is it possible that this experience was influenced in any way by the fact that they're trying to find a "Senior iPhone Developer" for under £40k? That's ~$65k, and thus roughly $100k shy of what you'd need to offer before you started to pique the interest of any good iPhone Developers in the current market.

£28k will get you a reasonable graduate. I don't understand how they're offering a salary range that starts with that for a "senior" position.

Re: Hiring Without Agencies - Lessons Learned

#27

Post by gcheong »

jasonkester wrote: post #3

Is it possible that this experience was influenced in any way by the fact that they're trying to find a "Senior iPhone Developer" for under £40k? That's ~$65k, and thus roughly $100k shy of what you'd need to offer before you started to pique the interest of any good iPhone Developers in the current market.

That and there was no mention of any equity. Is that normal for UK startups? Also, for me at least, I always find some way to exclude myself going through those "everything we want you to be an expert in before we'll even consider talking to you" laundry lists.

Re: Hiring Without Agencies - Lessons Learned

#28

Post by edderly »

ig1 wrote: post #25
edderly wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The boom had an effect, although the number of IT professionals grew (slowly) after the boom (see page 4 of the link), and I'm fairly sure it doesn't solely explain the collapse in Computing degree applicants. Also, when looking at average salary consider the continuing growth in the number of people going to university. Also simultaneous collapse in the number of CS grads is likely to help maintain the higher averag…

The papers actually quite weak, as there a strong distinction between IT and software development (and CS (G4xx) and IT degree), which the paper doesn't really pick up on. They make the mistake of using HESA data which classifies all IT degrees as computing. Non-development IT roles in the UK have been dropping dramatically over the last decade due to outsourcing and automation while developer roles have been increas…

I think you're splitting hairs in the first point, it's also strange though that CS grads also have the highest unemployment rate: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10477551. Which seems to contradict your point about developer roles, or speaks to other issues.

However, I absolutely agree that it is cultural trends that drive the choices, which goes back to my original point that now there is a broader cultural understanding of what life is like in the tech sector and that tech hasn't woke up to this yet.

Re: Hiring Without Agencies - Lessons Learned

#30

Post by tsiki »

Jabbles wrote: post #26
jasonkester wrote: post #3

Is it possible that this experience was influenced in any way by the fact that they're trying to find a "Senior iPhone Developer" for under £40k? That's ~$65k, and thus roughly $100k shy of what you'd need to offer before you started to pique the interest of any good iPhone Developers in the current market.

£28k will get you a reasonable graduate. I don't understand how they're offering a salary range that starts with that for a "senior" position.

Agreed. I'm a second year CS student and my summer job salary isn't far from that.
Post reply on HN