Collapse OS – Why Forth? • Hacker News Board

Re: Collapse OS – Why Forth?

#21

Post by weare138 » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:32 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #11

ojnabieoot wrote: post #5

I hate this headline but the project is very cool. People like me who were ignorant should start here instead of the Github to get a better sense of the design goals (and why they are using Forth): https://collapseos.org/forth.html

Ok, we'll change the url to that from https://github.com/hsoft/collapseos/commit/d777a74be30cefc1f... . Thanks! (Submitted title was "Collapse OS was entirely rewritten in Forth, a 50 year old language".) The project itself was discussed last year at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21182628 .

I think that's a better headline personally...

Re: Collapse OS – Why Forth?

#22

Post by jstanley » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:32 PM UTC

If this gets you interested in z80 hardware, I would recommend building an RC2014: https://rc2014.co.uk/

I built an RC2014 after CollapseOS was posted last year, and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I ended up adding a front panel, complete with switches and lights, to allow toggling in and executing code without a ROM, and also wrote a HTTP/1.0 server for CP/M (which was an enormous headache for lots of different reasons). Never did get around to running CollapseOS on it though.

Re: Collapse OS – Why Forth?

#23

Post by mshockwave » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:36 PM UTC

this might be a dumb question but can someone briefly explain why Forth is more suitable over C or other languages in general on post-apocalyptic OS?

Re: Collapse OS – Why Forth?

#24

Post by krick » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:39 PM UTC

I thought this is pretty fun project and the idea is just cool right away, but then I went on reading and was surprised by the fact it seems the author is serious. I would be really curious to hear his opinion on why the supply chains should collapse before 2030. Obviously, there wouldn't be a shortage of people in the comments who can start speculating on why it might happen, and, of course, I myself also can provide a couple of feasible scenarios, but nobody of us were serious enough to actually start this project, so his opinion on the matter is somehow quite more interesting to me than it would normally be.

Re: Collapse OS – Why Forth?

#25

Post by mhd » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:40 PM UTC

tarkin2 wrote: post #12

I love this project. Thank you for posting it. The idea of a post collapse operating system reminds me of slackware/subgenius’s old slogan: “...the world ends tomorrow and you may die!” I’ll be trying to compile collapseos, write forth and load slackware on floppys in a few years then. (Will systemd survive civilisation’s collapse, especially when it caused it, that is the question....)

For me this is slightly into Poe's Law territory: Is this actual prepper mindset, or tongue-in-cheek?

Re: Collapse OS – Why Forth?

#26

Post by bitwize » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

This is the kind of malarkey I'd get up to on a personal project of mine. Like, I wonder if I'd get farther if I'd written it in Forth/TinyScheme/Erlang? May as well completely overhaul it and find out!

Re: Collapse OS – Why Forth?

#27

Post by slim » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:53 PM UTC

krick wrote: post #24

I thought this is pretty fun project and the idea is just cool right away, but then I went on reading and was surprised by the fact it seems the author is serious. I would be really curious to hear his opinion on why the supply chains should collapse before 2030. Obviously, there wouldn't be a shortage of people in the comments who can start speculating on why it might happen, and, of course, I myself also can provid…

he gives a book name "Comment tout peut s'effondrer" by Pablo Servigne, Éditions du Seuil, 2015

https://collapseos.org/why.html

Re: Collapse OS – Why Forth?

#28

Post by gridlockd » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 10:03 PM UTC

mshockwave wrote: post #23

this might be a dumb question but can someone briefly explain why Forth is more suitable over C or other languages in general on post-apocalyptic OS?

It is very small.

Re: Collapse OS – Why Forth?

#29

Post by hxegon » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 10:04 PM UTC

undershirt wrote: post #17

> Forth doesn't elegantly describe complex algorithms… However, this mental pain does makes you question your need for complexity… This is something that I think few developers are familiar with and is hard to describe with words. It needs to be experienced. Nice framing, that it’s not an intellectual argument you can make to justify the benefits of drawbacks (i.e. an infamous red flag of stockholm syndrome), so you…

Or there are experiences which have hard to describe intangible qualities that are hard to put logically. Not sure why you have to reach for stockholm syndrome here.

Re: Collapse OS – Why Forth?

#30

Post by mdbauman » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 10:04 PM UTC

jstanley wrote: post #22

If this gets you interested in z80 hardware, I would recommend building an RC2014: https://rc2014.co.uk/ I built an RC2014 after CollapseOS was posted last year, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I ended up adding a front panel, complete with switches and lights, to allow toggling in and executing code without a ROM, and also wrote a HTTP/1.0 server for CP/M (which was an enormous headache for lots of different reasons). Ne…

I love this project, and check in on it every few months. I particularly like the idea of scavenging hardware:

> With a copy of this project, a capable and creative person should be able to manage to build and install Collapse OS without external resources (i.e. internet) on a machine of her design, built from scavenged parts with low-tech tools.

I'd be interested in trying to build my own proof-of-concept, but my hardware experience pretty much starts and stops with kids' electronics kits from 20 years ago.

Assuming I can scavenge a Z80, what would be a logical next step? What books/other resources should I be reading to learn more?