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Opinion: Open-source should stay away from all kinds of politics

techtudor.blogspot.com

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Re: Opinion: Open-source should stay away from all kinds of politics

#21

Post by testbot123 »

smitty1e wrote: post #19
shreygineer wrote: post #8

Hoping this is satire or somer sort of joke....but otherwise, Popular open source developers are using their platforms to advocate against oppression. This should be encouraged, not discourage - regardless of what your political leanings are. Would you be just as upset if they wrote #AllLivesMatter? Probably not. This post is using open source as a thinly veiled guise to rant about "SJW"s (the use of that term alone…

I have personally been denounced on social media for asking the question: "How is 'all lives matter' divisive in any way?" The response was "Oh, well, you know." No, really, I don't. "All" seems like an inclusive quantifier. The best understanding I can reach is that many of the arguments in circulation these days are NOT rational in nature.

"All lives matter" is divisive because "black lives matter" is a statement that black lives are largely devalued and forgotten in a system of institutionalized racism. "Black lives matter" leaves off the implied "too": "black lives matter, too."

> "WTF is the impulse behind changing #BlackLivesMatter to #AllLivesMatter. Do you crash strangers' funerals shouting I TOO HAVE FELT LOSS" - @arthur_affect on Twitter

Re: Opinion: Open-source should stay away from all kinds of politics

#22

Post by benjaminjosephw »

Yetanfou wrote: post #13

I'd rephrase that as 'free software should not do any politics which goes outside of the specific issues which it was created to influence', i.e. issues around copyright law, freedom of expression and related areas. Software licences should be free of politics other than those mentioned areas, both to avoid weakening the licence as well as to avoid fractioning the free software landscape into political factions. Free…

The author is complaining about the twitter accounts of open source contributors. Should they withhold their views on justice because it offends some of their followers?

Yes, weakening free licenses with constraints aligned to individual causes is problematic but that doesn't mean we should ignore all other issues of justice outside of those related to ownership and control. If anything, we need more conversations about the increasing inequalities and injustices caused by technology and the role we play within that. How can we do that without having "political" discussions in public? Why shouldn't entire open source communities have these discussions collectively?

Re: Opinion: Open-source should stay away from all kinds of politics

#23

Post by gremlinsinc »

0xy wrote: post #18
Nextgrid wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a company provides a service I expect them to continue doing so unless there's a case of "force majeure". By all means support whatever causes you believe in, write a blog post, donate to the cause and (most importantly - which is what a lot of companies conveniently omit in the case of BLM) fix your own internal issues related to that cause. But if you're going to degrade the service you promised to provide as…

Exactly, they have no obligation to keep the docs and website accessible but are they really winning people over or bringing more awareness to this issue by preventing you from working? It's obvious even they know their actions can't stand up to basic scrutiny, hence the immediate locking of the threads and even suspension of someone for daring to have the opinion that they shouldn't be doing it. A dismissable banner…

Isn't webpack open source? I mean seriously, most devs I know aren't paying them a dime to use it...so stop complaining.

Use something else if you don't like it. Why does it matter how many people use webpack if their just an open source library providing a service to all devs for free?

Re: Opinion: Open-source should stay away from all kinds of politics

#24

Post by 0xy »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #23
0xy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, they have no obligation to keep the docs and website accessible but are they really winning people over or bringing more awareness to this issue by preventing you from working? It's obvious even they know their actions can't stand up to basic scrutiny, hence the immediate locking of the threads and even suspension of someone for daring to have the opinion that they shouldn't be doing it. A dismissable banner…

Isn't webpack open source? I mean seriously, most devs I know aren't paying them a dime to use it...so stop complaining. Use something else if you don't like it. Why does it matter how many people use webpack if their just an open source library providing a service to all devs for free?

Why does free and open source status exempt someone from criticism? They have the right to take actions to interfere with people's work for political reasons and I have the right to criticise those decisions.

If "free" was an excuse out of poor behavior then surely Google and Facebook are exempt from criticism about data collection practices because they provide free services.

Re: Opinion: Open-source should stay away from all kinds of politics

#25

Post by Nextgrid »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #23
0xy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, they have no obligation to keep the docs and website accessible but are they really winning people over or bringing more awareness to this issue by preventing you from working? It's obvious even they know their actions can't stand up to basic scrutiny, hence the immediate locking of the threads and even suspension of someone for daring to have the opinion that they shouldn't be doing it. A dismissable banner…

Isn't webpack open source? I mean seriously, most devs I know aren't paying them a dime to use it...so stop complaining. Use something else if you don't like it. Why does it matter how many people use webpack if their just an open source library providing a service to all devs for free?

Webpack's website and marketing clearly tries to get us to use it, so although it's open source, the author (and contributors) from the project have an interest in people using their software.

In this case, they kind of pulled a bait and switch. They encouraged everyone to use it and then are letting them down by preventing them from using it efficiently on the basis of their own political beliefs.

It wouldn't be a problem if the project was advertised at the start as one person's work that comes with no guarantee of maintenance, support and if the guy suddenly goes crazy (whether because of political beliefs or otherwise) he might take down the project.

This one on the other hand looks serious, has good marketing, corporate sponsors, etc so while you can't ask for more, you at least kind of expect a serious project relied upon by thousands to not degrade existing stuff on the basis of political beliefs.

It's fine if you want to decide how your project is used (even for political reasons) but the proper way to do so is via the license so potential users know what they're in for before they start using the library and will (usually) refrain from using the library if the license does not allow them. This on the other hand is just a bait and switch and has tons of collateral damage to parties unrelated to, or even part of the BLM movement.

Re: Opinion: Open-source should stay away from all kinds of politics

#26

Post by smitty1e »

testbot123 wrote: post #21
smitty1e wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have personally been denounced on social media for asking the question: "How is 'all lives matter' divisive in any way?" The response was "Oh, well, you know." No, really, I don't. "All" seems like an inclusive quantifier. The best understanding I can reach is that many of the arguments in circulation these days are NOT rational in nature.

"All lives matter" is divisive because "black lives matter" is a statement that black lives are largely devalued and forgotten in a system of institutionalized racism. "Black lives matter" leaves off the implied "too": "black lives matter, too." > "WTF is the impulse behind changing #BlackLivesMatter to #AllLivesMatter. Do you crash strangers' funerals shouting I TOO HAVE FELT LOSS" - @arthur_affect on Twitter

I feel as though this discussion has more to do with the control over the discussion than with the content of either phrase.

Re: Opinion: Open-source should stay away from all kinds of politics

#27

Post by s9w »

0xy wrote: post #9
s9w wrote: post #4

These events are good for one thing though: expanding your own personal blacklist of companies, organizations, people etc. Like Sony being openly racist and tripling down on that.

Do people actively do this? My politics are so "off-center" that I'd starve to death in the street if I only associated with people and companies whom I agreed with politically. How do you even keep track? If someone asked me the political stances of my closest colleagues or largest software partners I couldn't even tell you.

There was a time when companies were just companies and politically neutral. That was truly a good time. If they play this misguided game I think it's only fair to punish them. It's just baffling that even the giants do this - Coca Cola Germany or Siemens as examples.

Re: Opinion: Open-source should stay away from all kinds of politics

#28

Post by eesmith »

smitty1e wrote: post #26
testbot123 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All lives matter" is divisive because "black lives matter" is a statement that black lives are largely devalued and forgotten in a system of institutionalized racism. "Black lives matter" leaves off the implied "too": "black lives matter, too." > "WTF is the impulse behind changing #BlackLivesMatter to #AllLivesMatter. Do you crash strangers' funerals shouting I TOO HAVE FELT LOSS" - @arthur_affect on Twitter

I feel as though this discussion has more to do with the control over the discussion than with the content of either phrase.

Well, yes? That is, the phrase "all lives matter" seems like it's often used as a way to take control away from the discussion about largely devalued and forgotten black lives.

If you want an explanation better than "Oh well, you know", you might start with the criticism section of its Wikipedia entry, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Lives_Matter#Criticism .

Re: Opinion: Open-source should stay away from all kinds of politics

#29

Post by ykevinator »

smitty1e wrote: post #19
shreygineer wrote: post #8

Hoping this is satire or somer sort of joke....but otherwise, Popular open source developers are using their platforms to advocate against oppression. This should be encouraged, not discourage - regardless of what your political leanings are. Would you be just as upset if they wrote #AllLivesMatter? Probably not. This post is using open source as a thinly veiled guise to rant about "SJW"s (the use of that term alone…

I have personally been denounced on social media for asking the question: "How is 'all lives matter' divisive in any way?" The response was "Oh, well, you know." No, really, I don't. "All" seems like an inclusive quantifier. The best understanding I can reach is that many of the arguments in circulation these days are NOT rational in nature.

Its divisive because it attempts to dismiss as invalid the notion that one racial group suffers a disproportionate targeting by police. It denies that racism is a problem or at best equates the problems faced by police to the problems created by police violence toward black people. When you say all lives matter, you're basically looking at these millions of people who are working toward making the world less hostile toward black people and saying "you're stupid, you're the racists."

Re: Opinion: Open-source should stay away from all kinds of politics

#30

Post by Yetanfou »

geoah wrote: post #16
Yetanfou wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> open source developers are using their platforms to advocate against oppression. This should be encouraged, not discourage - regardless of what your political leanings are. What one person calls 'oppression' is another person's freedom. A drug-free society/the 'war on drugs' versus freedom of choice. Second amendment activists versus gun control. Freedom of expression versus various laws which either forbid or mand…

So in this case “Getting killed by a cop in the street” vs “freedom for the police to murder people in cold blood “?

You know that not to be true so why bring it up? It is difficult enough to discuss this subject as it is without this type of commentary.
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