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"Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

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Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#21

This comment further down, supposedly from an Amazon employee, paints a grim picture for EBS: http://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/g66f0/why_reddit_was_d...

The perspectives of disgruntled employees have been known to be worse than reality, on occasion. Not definitively saying that's the case here, just saying.

As are often the perspectives of folks from another team, or trolls posing as employees. Definitely a grain of salt needed.

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#22
We (Cedexis) presented our findings on - How do EC2's East, West, EU & APAC zones compare: (pdf) http://www.cloudconnectevent.com/2011/presentations/free/76-...

If you would like to know more please send me an email: prakash [at] cedexis.com

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#23
post #15
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a case of similar to safety systems at a nuclear plant. Not pressing until it is REALLY PRESSING! Its the usual dilemma, investing time/moey on something that most likely wont be needed versus adding that cool feature all the users will immediately see the benefit of. In a competitive environment, it isn't difficult to understand how they ended up on one vendor.

If a nuclear plant has problems, it can kill a lot of people, and wreck the lives of many others. If reddit has problems, I suppose the worst that can happen is a cloud of toxic and poorly thought out comments is released on the internet. So the tradeoffs they've made, in saving some money, are probably sensible.

> If reddit has problems, I suppose the worst that can happen is a cloud of toxic and poorly thought out comments is released on the internet.

Actually, that's what happens when reddit is working :)

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#24
I firmly believe "the cloud" is a fad, unless for some reason you own and operate all the hardware yourself (ie. Google).

Like other technical fads, everyone will probably come back to servers they can reach out and touch when needed, sooner or later.

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#25
post #23
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a nuclear plant has problems, it can kill a lot of people, and wreck the lives of many others. If reddit has problems, I suppose the worst that can happen is a cloud of toxic and poorly thought out comments is released on the internet. So the tradeoffs they've made, in saving some money, are probably sensible.

> If reddit has problems, I suppose the worst that can happen is a cloud of toxic and poorly thought out comments is released on the internet. Actually, that's what happens when reddit is working :)

Well, depending on prevailing conditions, they might be more widely dispersed rather than contained within the special "echo chamber" that reddit has built for that purpose.

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#26
RAIDing together multiple EBS volumes feels like a massive hack to me. I can't help but wonder if this compounds the problem at Amazon's end. If EBS performance is a problem, Amazon need to fix it. For example, if some way of tying together multiple EBS volumes is a reasonable way of working around the problem, then why aren't Amazon providing "high performance" EBS volumes which do that under the hood?

If I were faced with EBS performance issues, I would see this as a big red flag, consider EBS unsuitable for the application and avoid it, rather than carrying on with such a workaround.

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#27
post #26

RAIDing together multiple EBS volumes feels like a massive hack to me. I can't help but wonder if this compounds the problem at Amazon's end. If EBS performance is a problem, Amazon need to fix it. For example, if some way of tying together multiple EBS volumes is a reasonable way of working around the problem, then why aren't Amazon providing "high performance" EBS volumes which do that under the hood? If I were fac…

One other huge downside of raiding EBS volumes is you can't use EBS's snapshotting features as you cannot guarantee a perfect sync (you could use LVM yourself however).

Honestly, since EBS vols are supposedly not tied to a single disk, the raiding should be done on Amazon's end. That it isn't is telling.

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#28

This comment further down, supposedly from an Amazon employee, paints a grim picture for EBS: http://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/g66f0/why_reddit_was_d...

Even if true, I don't think that comment is fair to the EBS team. It seems a likely reason for that behaviour is they don't have enough resource to work on and test (presumably) large changes to fix the underlying issue while also fixing the tickets which crop up. The tone of the comment seems to imply they're foolishly overlooking the obvious solution.

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#29
post #24

I firmly believe "the cloud" is a fad, unless for some reason you own and operate all the hardware yourself (ie. Google). Like other technical fads, everyone will probably come back to servers they can reach out and touch when needed, sooner or later.

> I firmly believe "the cloud" is a fad

You are wrong.

> everyone will probably come back to servers they can reach out and touch when needed, sooner or later.

No they won't, because most of us don't want to be managing hardware, ever.

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#30
post #24

I firmly believe "the cloud" is a fad, unless for some reason you own and operate all the hardware yourself (ie. Google). Like other technical fads, everyone will probably come back to servers they can reach out and touch when needed, sooner or later.

The cloud significantly lowers capital expenditure to get into an Internet-enabled business, which cultivates the very startup ecology that Y Combinator exists to leverage and support. Those teenagers who started the Facebook Pokemon game would have never had the resources to build a scalable solution with hardware that they own. (That is, unless Y Combinator paid a lot more money as part of participating. They might also be a bad example, because I remember that one of them had a successful sale...it's true for a lot of other ideas, so work with the example.) The cloud lowers the barrier of entry enough that good ideas can be explored and built, with very little financial risk to those getting into it.

This was the role of shared hosting in the past. Several years ago, everybody realized that having root is better. Now, instead of colocating two servers and negotiating transit and dealing with remote hands, you can spin up two Linodes for $40 and have enough power to build anything. Critical mass? Add three more. You're not waiting for a shipment of servers to the datacenter to handle a sudden load from a positive mention on HN.

Saying that the cloud is a fad and we should all own our gear does two things: (a) increases humanity's carbon footprint, since most organizations never utilize hardware to their full potential, and (b) guarantees that only those with significant capital to buy a fleet, a cage, and power will ever compete in the Internet space, which is where we were many years ago. It is very arguable that the cloud is progress, and everybody sitting on the sidelines calling it a "fad" is scared by it.

Jeremy Edberg of Reddit had a good comment later in that thread, to someone who paralleled the cloud to electricity generation:

http://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/g66f0/why_reddit_was_d...

What sucks is, my remarks really depend on what you define "cloud" as, which -- partially thanks to Microsoft television commercials -- is currently up in the air.

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