How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#21

Post by dfxm12 » Mon, Jun 01, 2020, 4:47 PM UTC

HorizonXP wrote: post #5

Local politics have the most impact on people, but get the least attention. Shouldn't it be easier to engage folks on a local level via social media, electronic voting, campaigns, etc?

Local politics have the most impact on people, but get the least attention.

FWIW, this is not a truism. First, the current administration in particular has been consolidating power.

Also, by many measures (ads, canvassing, town halls, discussion on community-based forums), the local elections get pretty much the same attention as the federal in my area.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#22

Post by mmastrac » Mon, Jun 01, 2020, 4:51 PM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #15

> So let’s not excuse violence, or rationalize it, or participate in it. Taboos around violence for political are one of the crucial building blocks for a functioning democracy. If those taboos are broken, even for a good cause, you set a precedence that violence works. And the next cause won’t be as good. One only has to look at the lessons of the Roman Revolution that started with the murder of Grachus, and ended w…

I cannot condone violence nor encourage it, but you have to admit that the first few protests and property damage drastically influenced the quick arrest of an officer that may not have been arrested or even fired if it didn't happen.

The non-violent protests of Colin Kaepernick were mocked and used to rally the other side and just weren't effective.

The problem here is not the violence, but a policing system that is so fundamentally damaged and has not been effectively reformed fast enough.

The MLK quote is trotted out pretty often, but "a riot is the language of the unheard".

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#23

Post by kindatrueyo » Mon, Jun 01, 2020, 4:52 PM UTC

miguelmota wrote: post #19

kindatrueyo wrote: post #16

"Yes we can" warmed up all-over again. Why is this on HN?

Please don’t create new accounts just to give these type of comments. If you don’t like the post then don’t upvote it and move along.

>Please don’t create new accounts just to give these type of comments. If you don’t like the post then don’t upvote it and move along.

If people would just stop trying to bring Reddit's infection with aggressive partisan political activism over to HN, other people like my myself would have no reason to complain.

Changing accounts is unfortunately necessary to evade personal targeting/doxxing by said activists.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#24

Post by dqpb » Mon, Jun 01, 2020, 4:53 PM UTC

HorizonXP wrote: post #4

META: Not sure why this was flagged/dead? I just vouched for it. Is it because it's political and not strictly about tech/hacker news? I'd argue that current events have a direct impact on all of us and this absolutely warrants discussion. Furthermore, I'm not sure I know of any instance where a President has disseminated writing like this. It's an interesting change, since it means that former Presidents can continu…

I think political content is discouraged here because of an assumption that politics is inherently unreasonable and trollish. But politics, government, society/culture are as much a system with dynamics as anything else, and we should be able to discuss that here. And as systems-thinkers, we should hold ourselves to a higher standard of thought and discourse.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#25

Post by nradov » Mon, Jun 01, 2020, 4:54 PM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #15

> So let’s not excuse violence, or rationalize it, or participate in it. Taboos around violence for political are one of the crucial building blocks for a functioning democracy. If those taboos are broken, even for a good cause, you set a precedence that violence works. And the next cause won’t be as good. One only has to look at the lessons of the Roman Revolution that started with the murder of Grachus, and ended w…

I don't condone violence, but at the same time you have to acknowledge that modern American democracy was built on the foundation of political violence. It worked for us.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#26

Post by supercanuck » Mon, Jun 01, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #22

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #15

> So let’s not excuse violence, or rationalize it, or participate in it. Taboos around violence for political are one of the crucial building blocks for a functioning democracy. If those taboos are broken, even for a good cause, you set a precedence that violence works. And the next cause won’t be as good. One only has to look at the lessons of the Roman Revolution that started with the murder of Grachus, and ended w…

I cannot condone violence nor encourage it, but you have to admit that the first few protests and property damage drastically influenced the quick arrest of an officer that may not have been arrested or even fired if it didn't happen. The non-violent protests of Colin Kaepernick were mocked and used to rally the other side and just weren't effective. The problem here is not the violence, but a policing system that is…

violence speaks the language of the non-educated in the short term, but it does more damage in the long run.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#27

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jun 01, 2020, 4:59 PM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #15

> So let’s not excuse violence, or rationalize it, or participate in it. Taboos around violence for political are one of the crucial building blocks for a functioning democracy. If those taboos are broken, even for a good cause, you set a precedence that violence works. And the next cause won’t be as good. One only has to look at the lessons of the Roman Revolution that started with the murder of Grachus, and ended w…

[deleted]

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#28

Post by arpa » Mon, Jun 01, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #22

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #15

> So let’s not excuse violence, or rationalize it, or participate in it. Taboos around violence for political are one of the crucial building blocks for a functioning democracy. If those taboos are broken, even for a good cause, you set a precedence that violence works. And the next cause won’t be as good. One only has to look at the lessons of the Roman Revolution that started with the murder of Grachus, and ended w…

I cannot condone violence nor encourage it, but you have to admit that the first few protests and property damage drastically influenced the quick arrest of an officer that may not have been arrested or even fired if it didn't happen. The non-violent protests of Colin Kaepernick were mocked and used to rally the other side and just weren't effective. The problem here is not the violence, but a policing system that is…

"See, people with power understand exactly one thing: violence." - Noam Chomsky.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#29

Post by mwseibel » Mon, Jun 01, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

I think it’s time for America’s leaders to stand up and organize our citizens in order to make long lasting policy changes. Citizens are paying attention. I want there to be a great American debate about what these changes should be. The world is watching and the American system is being tested. Let’s meet the challenge and be the example we want to see in the world. Clearly America is nowhere near perfect but with effort we can improve.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#30

Post by vkou » Mon, Jun 01, 2020, 5:02 PM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #15

> So let’s not excuse violence, or rationalize it, or participate in it. Taboos around violence for political are one of the crucial building blocks for a functioning democracy. If those taboos are broken, even for a good cause, you set a precedence that violence works. And the next cause won’t be as good. One only has to look at the lessons of the Roman Revolution that started with the murder of Grachus, and ended w…

The police were breaking those taboos constantly last week. I've seen them casually macing people (not to move them, or to make arrests - they didn't occupy that space, they just sprayed the front of a line down, because they could) tossing tear gas and flashbangs into non-violent crowds (again, without any intention of occupying the vacated space), and shooting non-lethal projectiles at people who were sitting on their porches.