Live data from Hacker News

Startups shouldn't raise money

ensorial.com

21–30 of 39 posts

Re: Startups shouldn't raise money

#21
post #11

This sounds like it is written by someone who has never started up a company or run a small business or a even lemonade stand in their life . This is equivalent to saying banks shouldn’t lend money to small businesses , businesses need money to survive, the guy having the money and one ready to work it are almost always not the same . it could be VC, the bank or your mom giving you the financing to start that lemonad…

It completely ignores everything from inventory to cash management from invoices being paid late.

Re: Startups shouldn't raise money

#22
Depends how much capital you have, and how profitable you are early on.

For most, its a harder path without. Growing fast with organic income leaves little room for risks (strategic/operational/extrinsic) and competitors with capital can outspend you.

Delivering a world beating service/product on a shoestring budget while spending on growth is even harder. Kudos to those that did this (Browserstack, Atlassian etc).

Re: Startups shouldn't raise money

#23
Like all things we deal with in our profession, the choice to raise money is a tradeoff to be evaluated, not something inherently good or bad.

The cons of raising VC money? You are forced to answer to someone else to some extent. You become vulnerable to complacency and largesse for the reasons stated in the article. You put some distance between yourself and customers early, which can slow down your quest for product-market fit. You lose a piece of the equity pie.

The pros of raising VC money? A good investor can give you market knowledge you would have to learn the hard way otherwise. A war chest can give you a head start over other early-stage competitors (or establish you as legitimate among existing ones). You can take on problems that require large up-front investments. You can hire people to help you out without having to worry about your ability to pay them.

Personally? I found the tradeoff to be worth it and raised money for my current company. We worked for about 8 months without paying ourselves, and then started paying ourselves half our market rates once we had some supplementary cash in the bank. We hired a few stellar employees who knew how to do the things we needed to do but couldn’t, and now I think we’re in a much better spot than we would have been had we not raised.

But obviously it depends on the situation - just because it’s worked for us doesn’t mean it will for others. Happy to answer further questions about our founder rationale for anyone who’s interested.

Re: Startups shouldn't raise money

#24
post #4

Founders always have skin in the game. It is called their time. Their lifetime is a very finite resource. In reality, very few founders just raise straight away. 99% of founders spend a significant amount of time working on their business before they see the first dollar from the investor. Operating business with capital constraints most of the time actually leads to way worse decisions. You start working with people…

Not all investors are created equal. Taking their money might mean having to listen to them. Nothing like fun and games introduced by a bad investor to make an already stressful situation more stressful. Don’t build a business reliant on investment and you’ll be happier. If you have to raise then don’t treat it as a good thing, you just sold part of your company and have more bosses now than just clients. Standard te…

> Taking their money might mean having to listen to them.

How is that structured legally? I doubt they get a majority's vote, so how else can they influence the decisions? Is not all investment money unlocked upfront?

Re: Startups shouldn't raise money

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all investors are created equal. Taking their money might mean having to listen to them. Nothing like fun and games introduced by a bad investor to make an already stressful situation more stressful. Don’t build a business reliant on investment and you’ll be happier. If you have to raise then don’t treat it as a good thing, you just sold part of your company and have more bosses now than just clients. Standard te…

> Taking their money might mean having to listen to them. How is that structured legally? I doubt they get a majority's vote, so how else can they influence the decisions? Is not all investment money unlocked upfront?

Sometimes they get an equal share. Other times they are just more credible than you and can rally the other shareholders. Other times they threaten other consequences simply through their influence. They don't need a legal mechanism to force your hand.

Never been an entrepreneur myself, but was an employee of a startup in an accelerator and have worked for two others.

Re: Startups shouldn't raise money

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all investors are created equal. Taking their money might mean having to listen to them. Nothing like fun and games introduced by a bad investor to make an already stressful situation more stressful. Don’t build a business reliant on investment and you’ll be happier. If you have to raise then don’t treat it as a good thing, you just sold part of your company and have more bosses now than just clients. Standard te…

> Taking their money might mean having to listen to them. How is that structured legally? I doubt they get a majority's vote, so how else can they influence the decisions? Is not all investment money unlocked upfront?

My contract had things like "investors majority" and supervisory board with lots of power where I only had 1 vote.

Those 2 things together could force me to do almost anything if they really wanted.

It's all in the details.

Re: Startups shouldn't raise money

#28
This post is either written by someone with no skin in the game when it comes to the advice they’re giving (despite appearing to have swallowed a couple of Taleb books but retained little, oh the pointless irony) or who is massively overgeneralising a subset of reality that worked for them.

Please don’t follow their advice.

> The alternative is to forgo raising money and creating a sustainable business from the beginning, growing linearly with the number of people that give you money for your product.

This works only for insanely wealthy founders or trivially simple to implement businesses (and even then you’re going to need to be way richer than average). One of the great things about the rise in startups, accelerators, and VCs is that starting companies has become a career option for far more of the population.

The rest of the argument just degenerates from there:

No skin in the game: try telling that to a founder who’s taken a 50–80% pay cut and probably started off working for free to get their company funded, but who owns big chunk of the equity and can pay themselves properly if they get to product market fit and hit a growth curve.

Ruthless execution, faster path to growth etc. Nonsense! I’ve come across plenty of small startups or individual founders that carried on far too long after they should have admitted failure because of the sunk cost fallacy. Team keeps taking sacrifices - cut all costs, less pay, work for equity, etc. But while you’re small enough you can do this nearly indefinitely. Taking funding forces you to aim for something bigger and you’re either going to win, close down, pivot, or get acquired. Sure you can keep raising while there’s a probability of a big enough success at the end but the size of the potential and burden of evidence goes up with every new round and every increased valuation.

Re: Startups shouldn't raise money

#29
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taking their money might mean having to listen to them. How is that structured legally? I doubt they get a majority's vote, so how else can they influence the decisions? Is not all investment money unlocked upfront?

My contract had things like "investors majority" and supervisory board with lots of power where I only had 1 vote. Those 2 things together could force me to do almost anything if they really wanted. It's all in the details.

Yeah, those details matter.

I could definitely get behind “Startups shouldn’t raise money on terms that destroy their autonomy and self determination”

Re: Startups shouldn't raise money

#30
post #4

Founders always have skin in the game. It is called their time. Their lifetime is a very finite resource. In reality, very few founders just raise straight away. 99% of founders spend a significant amount of time working on their business before they see the first dollar from the investor. Operating business with capital constraints most of the time actually leads to way worse decisions. You start working with people…

As with darn near everything, there’s a balance. I’m invested in companies taking a more VC approach, and another company that is incredibly cautious and skeptical of fundraising, growing slowly and cautiously.

This is an case by case kinda thing. And that’s why blanket advice “don’t raise money” is silly.

Also, it’s a software centric mentality. Good luck getting your hardware startup going without funding!

Post reply on HN