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Updating STM32 Over-The-Air using ESP32

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Re: Updating STM32 Over-The-Air using ESP32

#21

Post by fermienrico »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #15
ArgyleSound wrote: post #4

Sorry if this question sounds stupid but why not just use the ESP32 for whatever the STM32 is being used for? It can even update itself over the air.

Better support, documentation, and peripherals. The ESP32 datasheet is 62 pages. The STM32F4 datasheet is 1729 pages, and that's not counting the reference manuals. The ESP32 datasheet contains about 3 paragraphs about the ADC, which basically say that it has an accuracy of +/-6%, see example code for ways to calibrate it (which probably amounts to a linear interpolation between two sample counts with the pin pulled…

Yes, people don't realize how inadequate ESP32 is for commercial use. There are literally no commercial products that use ESP32 (or its older brother ESP8266) besides some chinese cheap toys on Amazon.

There are packages out there that use ESP32 as a "augmentation" chip to do OTA with a main processor being STM32 or NXP. There are also major security flaws and silicon revisions made by ESP32 that makes the whole thing reek of inadequacy beyond anything a hobbyist would do.

ESP32 -> Hobby use only. Don't spin up $500k of tooling and HVM batch relying on a weak CPU that will give you some chance of a complete recall or losing your customer base that took many years to build.

Hobbyists on Youtube and EE Stackoverflow are oblivious to the professional world. Let me know if you would like sources, I don't have time to dig into it but esp32.net is a good place.

Re: Updating STM32 Over-The-Air using ESP32

#22

Post by nickff »

monocasa wrote: post #18
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better support, documentation, and peripherals. The ESP32 datasheet is 62 pages. The STM32F4 datasheet is 1729 pages, and that's not counting the reference manuals. The ESP32 datasheet contains about 3 paragraphs about the ADC, which basically say that it has an accuracy of +/-6%, see example code for ways to calibrate it (which probably amounts to a linear interpolation between two sample counts with the pin pulled…

If you're throwing an ESP on there anywhere, wouldn't an I2C or SPI ADC be way cheaper than a whole nother MPU for the same performance?

There are significant advantages to onboard ADCs, including sampling rate and synchronization.

Re: Updating STM32 Over-The-Air using ESP32

#23

Post by mhh__ »

nickff wrote: post #22
monocasa wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're throwing an ESP on there anywhere, wouldn't an I2C or SPI ADC be way cheaper than a whole nother MPU for the same performance?

There are significant advantages to onboard ADCs, including sampling rate and synchronization.

LPC4370 goes up to 80MSPS!

Re: Updating STM32 Over-The-Air using ESP32

#25

Post by mosselman »

nickff wrote: post #5
ArgyleSound wrote: post #4

Sorry if this question sounds stupid but why not just use the ESP32 for whatever the STM32 is being used for? It can even update itself over the air.

STM32 is available with more, and better peripherals and interfaces than the ESP32. Embedded microcontrollers perform a wide variety of tasks, aside from simple digital communication. [0] I am an embedded engineer who works with STM32 and bluetooth modules

So this is totally off-topic and a bit you are going to think I am very rude for intruding:

I was just looking around whether it is possible to create custom apps (on phones) to sync with smart watches (generic ones from places like aliexpress). I have no experience with bluetooth, but is there anything that would prevent you from making something like that? Even if it is just for myself, I don't need to release or anything.

Do you happen to know if it is possible and where I can look?

Re: Updating STM32 Over-The-Air using ESP32

#27

Post by pantalaimon »

nickff wrote: post #14
pantalaimon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The esp32 has quite a rich set of peripherals on its own.

I would describe the ESP32 as having a basic peripheral set. The ADCs and DACs are not great, and there are basically no other analog peripherals. The timers are meager, and low-power functionality is lacking. The documentation is horrible, which is very important when you compare it to NXP and STM which both put out fantastic 2k-3k page reference manuals.

Yes it's a shame. The hardware is quite capable for the price but the documentation is lacking, so one has to resort to reverse-engineering - which is totally ridiculous. Traditional MCU vendors have set quite a high standard to the quality and availability of documentation.

I know good documentation takes effort, but the lack thereof is hampering the product.

One can only hope that with Espressif trying to become more mainstream, they will improve in that department.

Re: Updating STM32 Over-The-Air using ESP32

#28

Post by Denvercoder9 »

fermienrico wrote: post #21
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better support, documentation, and peripherals. The ESP32 datasheet is 62 pages. The STM32F4 datasheet is 1729 pages, and that's not counting the reference manuals. The ESP32 datasheet contains about 3 paragraphs about the ADC, which basically say that it has an accuracy of +/-6%, see example code for ways to calibrate it (which probably amounts to a linear interpolation between two sample counts with the pin pulled…

Yes, people don't realize how inadequate ESP32 is for commercial use. There are literally no commercial products that use ESP32 (or its older brother ESP8266) besides some chinese cheap toys on Amazon. There are packages out there that use ESP32 as a "augmentation" chip to do OTA with a main processor being STM32 or NXP. There are also major security flaws and silicon revisions made by ESP32 that makes the whole thin…

> There are literally no commercial products that use ESP32 (or its older brother ESP8266) besides some chinese cheap toys on Amazon.

There are lots of commerical IoT devices that use the ESP chips (Shelly, Sonoff, Tuya e.g.).

Re: Updating STM32 Over-The-Air using ESP32

#29

Post by nickff »

mosselman wrote: post #25
nickff wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

STM32 is available with more, and better peripherals and interfaces than the ESP32. Embedded microcontrollers perform a wide variety of tasks, aside from simple digital communication. [0] I am an embedded engineer who works with STM32 and bluetooth modules

So this is totally off-topic and a bit you are going to think I am very rude for intruding: I was just looking around whether it is possible to create custom apps (on phones) to sync with smart watches (generic ones from places like aliexpress). I have no experience with bluetooth, but is there anything that would prevent you from making something like that? Even if it is just for myself, I don't need to release or a…

There are no hardware obstacles to doing that, and BLE (BT4 and 5) support custom protocols. That said, I think you will find that working with the proprietary operating systems and architectures on watches and phones is much more difficult than you anticipate.

Re: Updating STM32 Over-The-Air using ESP32

#30

Post by nickff »

pantalaimon wrote: post #27
nickff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would describe the ESP32 as having a basic peripheral set. The ADCs and DACs are not great, and there are basically no other analog peripherals. The timers are meager, and low-power functionality is lacking. The documentation is horrible, which is very important when you compare it to NXP and STM which both put out fantastic 2k-3k page reference manuals.

Yes it's a shame. The hardware is quite capable for the price but the documentation is lacking, so one has to resort to reverse-engineering - which is totally ridiculous. Traditional MCU vendors have set quite a high standard to the quality and availability of documentation. I know good documentation takes effort, but the lack thereof is hampering the product. One can only hope that with Espressif trying to become mo…

A datasheet is a contract, not just documentation. If they put something on the datasheet, they need to write the document, then test the parameter, and guarantee that performance.

If I receive 10k of a part that does not satisfy specified performance parameters, I will return the reels, and never design that manufacturer's parts into any future product.

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