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Qatar Airways demands payment for training from terminated flight crew

ukaviation.news

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Re: Qatar Airways demands payment for training from terminated flight crew

#21

Post by gazoakley »

More background here:

https://onemileatatime.com/qatar-airways-fires-pilot/

https://viewfromthewing.com/qatar-airways-firing-pilots-and-...

It's suggested in the first article that the pilot had failed to pass the necessary exams:

"The other side of the story here is that the pilot has spent the past six years completing a two year training course, and still hasn’t passed any of the tests necessary to become a pilot. The airline became fed up, and since they’re firing pilots anyway and trying to cut costs, they also decided to terminate their contract with her at this point."

Re: Qatar Airways demands payment for training from terminated flight crew

#22

Post by LatteLazy »

C1sc0cat wrote: post #19
LatteLazy wrote: post #12

This is pretty standard in many countries and industries. Really, we need a law that turns it into a loan automatically with reasonable terms at the end of employment. But other than that, this is no different to any other student loan. Boomers killed free education, so now everyone pays one way or another.

Actually not most countries strictly limit /regulate this sort behaviour and if your made redundant I suspect that the employer would not be able to recover anything. Unfortunately employment practices in that part of the world are Horrific - its just normally poor navvies employed on building sites get the worst of it - see some of the coverage of the word cup construction in Quatar

It's not illegal in the UK either I'm afraid. In fact, it's standard.

Im not saying this is nice or positive. Just that it's totally legal and pretty standard.

I know because my first proper employer did NOT put this clause in my contract. Then they tried to introduce it for me and others after adding it for new employees. So I (we, there were 5 of us) actually sought legal advice.

The lawyer was surprised it wasn't in the original contract (and it's been in all the employment contracts I've signed since). Since it wasn't there, they couldn't enforce it or make us sign it. So we were lucky.

Its a hard thing to decide because the alternative is banning this sort of program. Then the only people who get to be pilots are the ones with 130k to spare...

Re: Qatar Airways demands payment for training from terminated flight crew

#23

Post by LatteLazy »

gambiting wrote: post #18
LatteLazy wrote: post #12

This is pretty standard in many countries and industries. Really, we need a law that turns it into a loan automatically with reasonable terms at the end of employment. But other than that, this is no different to any other student loan. Boomers killed free education, so now everyone pays one way or another.

>>Boomers killed free education, so now everyone pays one way or another. This anglo-centric assumption is killing me on HN. My "boomer" parents were deep in a communist state at my age and they could only dream of the quality of life that we enjoy today. But hey they are "boomers" so fuck them, right?

They weren't boomers. Boomers is a specifically western phenomenon. In China for instance, the same generation were basically the oppose: they were given nothing and built a much better standard of living for their children.

Sorry to be anglocentric. I try not to be, but it slips through sometimes. :)

Re: Qatar Airways demands payment for training from terminated flight crew

#24

Post by chrisseaton »

LatteLazy wrote: post #22
C1sc0cat wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually not most countries strictly limit /regulate this sort behaviour and if your made redundant I suspect that the employer would not be able to recover anything. Unfortunately employment practices in that part of the world are Horrific - its just normally poor navvies employed on building sites get the worst of it - see some of the coverage of the word cup construction in Quatar

It's not illegal in the UK either I'm afraid. In fact, it's standard. Im not saying this is nice or positive. Just that it's totally legal and pretty standard. I know because my first proper employer did NOT put this clause in my contract. Then they tried to introduce it for me and others after adding it for new employees. So I (we, there were 5 of us) actually sought legal advice. The lawyer was surprised it wasn't…

Is it not still the case that that almost all commercial pilots come from people leaving the military or has that changed?

Re: Qatar Airways demands payment for training from terminated flight crew

#25

Post by LatteLazy »

chrisseaton wrote: post #24
LatteLazy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not illegal in the UK either I'm afraid. In fact, it's standard. Im not saying this is nice or positive. Just that it's totally legal and pretty standard. I know because my first proper employer did NOT put this clause in my contract. Then they tried to introduce it for me and others after adding it for new employees. So I (we, there were 5 of us) actually sought legal advice. The lawyer was surprised it wasn't…

Is it not still the case that that almost all commercial pilots come from people leaving the military or has that changed?

I don't know to be honest. I don't think so, as there are really not many military pilots compared to commercial? But I'm no expert.

Quickie edit...

Google says the RAF has 1830 pilots and the Navy about 200 more but the UK has over 10,000 commercial pilots. So I guess at least half the commercial pilots trained outside the military. So they're either self funding or getting these employer funded loans?

Re: Qatar Airways demands payment for training from terminated flight crew

#26

Post by vinay427 »

jonplackett wrote: post #3

That’s it, I’m cancelling my summer holiday to Qatar.

I can't tell if you're serious, but Qatar has had a long history of migrant worker abuses and exploitation, perhaps most globally publicized due to the FIFA World Cup controversies. This Qatar Airways incident is rather benign by comparison. Migrant/foreign workers make up almost 90% of their workforce according to this article, which honestly makes much of Qatar seem dependent on something resembling indentured servitude:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-a...

Re: Qatar Airways demands payment for training from terminated flight crew

#27

Post by raverbashing »

Flyer forums have a lot of information on work conditions regarding airlines around the world (usually the ones that attract expats).

From what I remember this company does not get the better reviews, even when compared with other companies from the same region.

Re: Qatar Airways demands payment for training from terminated flight crew

#28

Post by squnch »

vinay427 wrote: post #26
jonplackett wrote: post #3

That’s it, I’m cancelling my summer holiday to Qatar.

I can't tell if you're serious, but Qatar has had a long history of migrant worker abuses and exploitation, perhaps most globally publicized due to the FIFA World Cup controversies. This Qatar Airways incident is rather benign by comparison. Migrant/foreign workers make up almost 90% of their workforce according to this article, which honestly makes much of Qatar seem dependent on something resembling indentured serv…

There’s a word you have skirted around: “slavery.” Qatar is a slave trafficking state and deserves a total embargo far more than Iran or Cuba does.

Re: Qatar Airways demands payment for training from terminated flight crew

#29

Post by gspr »

LatteLazy wrote: post #23
gambiting wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Boomers killed free education, so now everyone pays one way or another. This anglo-centric assumption is killing me on HN. My "boomer" parents were deep in a communist state at my age and they could only dream of the quality of life that we enjoy today. But hey they are "boomers" so fuck them, right?

They weren't boomers. Boomers is a specifically western phenomenon. In China for instance, the same generation were basically the oppose: they were given nothing and built a much better standard of living for their children. Sorry to be anglocentric. I try not to be, but it slips through sometimes. :)

> They weren't boomers. Boomers is a specifically western phenomenon.

Your original comment is still super US-centric. I live in a western European country. In my country, the "boomer" generation and their parents built the welfare state that gave me free education from kindergarten to PhD. I'm forever grateful for that, and the social safety nets they put in place.

Re: Qatar Airways demands payment for training from terminated flight crew

#30

Post by yardie »

chrisseaton wrote: post #24
LatteLazy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not illegal in the UK either I'm afraid. In fact, it's standard. Im not saying this is nice or positive. Just that it's totally legal and pretty standard. I know because my first proper employer did NOT put this clause in my contract. Then they tried to introduce it for me and others after adding it for new employees. So I (we, there were 5 of us) actually sought legal advice. The lawyer was surprised it wasn't…

Is it not still the case that that almost all commercial pilots come from people leaving the military or has that changed?

That hasn’t been the case in decades. When TWA was expanding they had a large pool of WWII pilots. Training for military pilots is very expensive as well. They won’t want to waste it on someone who’s only sticking around 5 years.
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