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Self-Organizations

shoniko.com

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Re: Self-Organizations

#21

Post by carapace »

tlarkworthy wrote: post #14
carapace wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bees have a queen. The "queens" are gonad not brain.

Not really she has a number of major decisions to make (kill her sisters, decide to leave hive, regulate bonding) https://www.perfectbee.com/learn-about-bees/the-life-of-bees...

> The queen is very directed and regimented in everything she does, from her mating flight to her regular, consistent egg-laying prowess. Given her central role and even her name, it is understandable that the layman assumes the queen to be a decision-maker, of sorts. This is not the case at all.

> She is the star of the hive, because of her egg-laying abilities, but is controlled by an overall puppet master – the collection of worker bees.

Right at the start of the article my friend...

Re: Self-Organizations

#22

Post by carapace »

eternalban wrote: post #13
carapace wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bees have a queen. The "queens" are gonad not brain.

I've always viewed the entire colony as the "thinker". It is true that the queen is not the "brain" but then neither is the individual worker bee. Considered as a cellular automata, the queen 'cell' is a super-cell. The queen regulates flow of pheromones, and communication is communication, whether it uses electric signals or gradient diffusion of chemicals. That 'cell' is sitting on top of a hierarchy, and whether s…

FWIW it's not like we disregard the, uh, input of our gonads, eh?

Anyway, I basically agree with you, except that I doubt the queen is doing much more, uh, thinking than any particular worker. I don't think she's more of a person (independent mind) than a worker.

Re: Self-Organizations

#24

Post by eternalban »

carapace wrote: post #22
eternalban wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always viewed the entire colony as the "thinker". It is true that the queen is not the "brain" but then neither is the individual worker bee. Considered as a cellular automata, the queen 'cell' is a super-cell. The queen regulates flow of pheromones, and communication is communication, whether it uses electric signals or gradient diffusion of chemicals. That 'cell' is sitting on top of a hierarchy, and whether s…

FWIW it's not like we disregard the, uh, input of our gonads, eh? Anyway, I basically agree with you, except that I doubt the queen is doing much more, uh, thinking than any particular worker. I don't think she's more of a person (independent mind) than a worker.

It's very simple: there is a hierarchy in a hive. And yes, on occasion I surprise myself, to say nothing of my demanding gonad, and veto hormonal urges.

The topic at hand, my original remark above, is that self-organization does not speak to the necessity of leaders, and hierarchical organizational order.

Re: Self-Organizations

#26

Post by tlarkworthy »

carapace wrote: post #21
tlarkworthy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really she has a number of major decisions to make (kill her sisters, decide to leave hive, regulate bonding) https://www.perfectbee.com/learn-about-bees/the-life-of-bees...

> The queen is very directed and regimented in everything she does, from her mating flight to her regular, consistent egg-laying prowess. Given her central role and even her name, it is understandable that the layman assumes the queen to be a decision-maker, of sorts. This is not the case at all. > She is the star of the hive, because of her egg-laying abilities, but is controlled by an overall puppet master – the co…

I am arguing against her being a gonad. Read the rest of the article

Re: Self-Organizations

#27

Post by carapace »

tlarkworthy wrote: post #26
carapace wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The queen is very directed and regimented in everything she does, from her mating flight to her regular, consistent egg-laying prowess. Given her central role and even her name, it is understandable that the layman assumes the queen to be a decision-maker, of sorts. This is not the case at all. > She is the star of the hive, because of her egg-laying abilities, but is controlled by an overall puppet master – the co…

I am arguing against her being a gonad. Read the rest of the article

I read it. It doesn't seem to me to make your point.
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