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Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

theatlantic.com

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Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#21

Post by cbhl »

daxfohl wrote: post #14

Anybody else feeling like if we're young and healthy we should actively try to contract this thing, self-isolate for a few weeks, and be done with it? It feels almost like this would be the most socially responsible thing to do: reduce the effective R0 and allow things to start getting back to normality. I'm the farthest thing from a "reopen" protester. But I can't help thinking that as a young and healthy individual…

It's unclear to me whether you'll catch it again next year (like the seasonal flu), or how long your immunity will last. But if you want to go about this, I'd suggest doing so with medical supervision.

Consider volunteering for a "challenge vaccine trial": https://1daysooner.org/

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#22

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

daxfohl wrote: post #14

Anybody else feeling like if we're young and healthy we should actively try to contract this thing, self-isolate for a few weeks, and be done with it? It feels almost like this would be the most socially responsible thing to do: reduce the effective R0 and allow things to start getting back to normality. I'm the farthest thing from a "reopen" protester. But I can't help thinking that as a young and healthy individual…

The problem with that is, as far as I know, that:

- COVID puts even some of the young and healthy into the ICU

- there are reports of serious long term damage even in mild/asymptomatic cases, so you might be immune until the next big pandemic but your lungs may be busted forever

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#23

Post by adrianN »

kube-system wrote: post #7
aphextron wrote: post #2

We just need to make the office an optional place that people can gather when they feel the need to. I have no problem at all working a 5 day 40 hours work week from home. But this nonsense of everyone waking up at the same time, sitting in traffic, and cramming into "open plan" work spaces has to go.

Many workplaces have been moving in this direction over the past decade. Not only do employees love it; there are also serious cost savings for employers. Pretty much everyone wants to go this direction. The problem is that there are still serious hurdles in place -- mainly due to the nature of the work, or cultural/interpersonal challenges.

I think you're living in a bubble if you believe that everyone wants to go into that direction. At least here in Germany, butts in seats is still very important. The only office workers I know who can work from home during the pandemic are programmers. Everyone else still has to go to the office.

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#24

Post by adrianN »

fiblye wrote: post #6
tehjoker wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm concerned that if we go this route on a permanent basis without a more powerful labor movement, it'll mean that work and home will seamlessly merge. Employer surveillance will enter the home and corporate domination will seep into every pore of our existence... and that's for white collar workers.

If work from home ends up really sticking around, I'm sure plenty of cost-cutting employers will expect everyone to buy their own computers, but expect employees to all install keyloggers and monitoring software in order to work. And people will accept it, because they'll be fired if they refuse and someone more desperate will deal with it so long as they get paid at some point.

Keyloggers and monitoring software are illegal even on employer issued computers in Germany afaik.

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#25

Post by fiblye »

tehjoker wrote: post #11
fiblye wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If work from home ends up really sticking around, I'm sure plenty of cost-cutting employers will expect everyone to buy their own computers, but expect employees to all install keyloggers and monitoring software in order to work. And people will accept it, because they'll be fired if they refuse and someone more desperate will deal with it so long as they get paid at some point.

I hate to always be that guy, but this is the sort of situation in which one might wield the strike, a coordinated worker action, to prevent home spyware from being installed. If you work within a framework of uncoordinated individual action, domination of the individual by the interests of the corporation is the logical result.

I'd like to hope that would happen, but I'm more afraid there'd be media/government complaints of "lazy workers with the privilege of working at home and doing nothing are STRIKING!" and people would eat it up.

There are people out there saying a minimum wage of $7.25 is too high and we should get rid of it entirely. I think in many places, workers would fear they'll lose even more by striking for privacy.

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#26

Post by twunde »

SeeTheTruth wrote: post #18
daxfohl wrote: post #14

Anybody else feeling like if we're young and healthy we should actively try to contract this thing, self-isolate for a few weeks, and be done with it? It feels almost like this would be the most socially responsible thing to do: reduce the effective R0 and allow things to start getting back to normality. I'm the farthest thing from a "reopen" protester. But I can't help thinking that as a young and healthy individual…

NO. You risk spreading it, young and healthy people are still dying or having severe outcomes - we still don't know enough to predict how it will go. And we still don't know if catching one strain once confers immunity, or for how long. So you won't be "done with it". If you do get sick you become a burden on an overloaded healthcare system. The people talking about this option are rightly being shut down.

To reiterate NO! Something that's not talked about enough is that the coronavirus is causing neurological issues[1]. The full effects aren't known, but examples of neurological diseases are MS, Parkinson's and cerebral palsy. That's not something to want to voluntarily get. oh, and that's not to mention that you're likely to get lung scarring or have a long-term cough[2]. The survivors will have major long-term complications.

[1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/2... [2] https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-som...

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#27

Post by adrianN »

forgot_my_pwd wrote: post #19

How many of us don't want to commute to the office 5 days a week, but also don't necessarily like the idea of working from home when not at the office? My personal ideal is a dedicated office space in a location very close to my home, like in the nearest downtown, where I would pay a certain amount per month in return for a set of days on which I could reserve personal office space. The issue with working from home f…

If your work location is farther away than the nearest downtown you should look for either a new job or a new place to live imho. Commuting more than an hour a day is awful.

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#28

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

For those living (and planning to stay) in areas with high wage standards (like most of the Western world!), keep in mind that remote work also opens your job to competition from much cheaper places.

Great for the people in those places, but your happiness to be able to skip the commute may quickly turn into a lot of unhappiness because you can't make a living wage anymore.

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#29

Post by adrianN »

djhaskin987 wrote: post #12

If everyone started working fewer hours for the same pay you would be effectively devaluing the dollar. You wouldn't actually be adding more value to the economy. Value in the economy is created by work and there is simply no substitute for that. Shortening the work week would simply make less value in the economy, making us all poorer and more idle. Too much idleness I can tell you leads to stress, even more stress…

I'm pretty sure we're far away from too much idleness. 40 hours is too much work. 20 or so would be more than sufficient imho. That would give people time for hobbies and social interaction outside the office.

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#30

Post by greglindahl »

elliekelly wrote: post #13
djhaskin987 wrote: post #12

If everyone started working fewer hours for the same pay you would be effectively devaluing the dollar. You wouldn't actually be adding more value to the economy. Value in the economy is created by work and there is simply no substitute for that. Shortening the work week would simply make less value in the economy, making us all poorer and more idle. Too much idleness I can tell you leads to stress, even more stress…

Many people outside of Silicon Valley have temporarily (in theory) had their salaries cut. 20% less work for 25-30% less pay sounds like it devalues employee time far more than it devalues the dollar.

Are people inside Silicon Valley not having their salaries cut?
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