I3wm and Ubuntu 20.04 server without any useless packages • Hacker News Board

Re: I3wm and Ubuntu 20.04 server without any useless packages

#21

Post by cxr » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 2:00 PM UTC

chirau wrote: post #8

What are "useless packages" and why were they made?

Here's a subset of active processes on my system, where I know that these have never fulfilled their purpose, given the way that I use my computer:

- /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-source-registry

- /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-alarm-notify

- /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-calendar-factory

- /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-calendar-factory-subprocess

- /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-addressbook-factory

- /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-calendar-factory-subprocess

- /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-addressbook-factory-subprocess

- /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-calendar-factory-subprocess

Side note: I blogged about this last year, outlining a policy that distro package maintainers could adopt:

https://www.colbyrussell.com/2019/05/15/may-integration.html...

The idea is that any background service should be sufficiently self-aware, i.e., able to understand that (a) it is a service was installed by default (without explicit action on the part of the user; it was just included in the default install) so that it may at some point be of use, and (b) in the last (say) 4 months since the system was first installed, the service has never been exercised for its original purpose. Given those conditions, the system should retire the service for the foreseeable future, so that it no longer runs in the background.

Re: I3wm and Ubuntu 20.04 server without any useless packages

#22

Post by markstos » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 2:01 PM UTC

ramses0 wrote: post #5

Why Ubuntu and not Debian for a project like this?

Having used both recently, I found when some vendors target just one distro to package for, they target Ubuntu because it's more popular, not Debian.

I thought "No problem, the .deb format works on both!". But in practice the Ubuntu and Debian release cycles are not aligned and so their dependency trees are not always aligned, so some vendors .deb package for Ubuntu may not work on Debian.

You can choose Debian and hope you don't run into this, or you can choose Ubuntu and benefit from current and future support from a more popular desktop distribution.

Re: I3wm and Ubuntu 20.04 server without any useless packages

#23

Post by markstos » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

You probably want Regolith Linux instead, or an Ansible-based solution which will work better for updates.

This project is an opinionated one-time install script. After initial install, good luck!

Re: I3wm and Ubuntu 20.04 server without any useless packages

#24

Post by jplayer01 » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

GGfpc wrote: post #20

Zhyl wrote: post #7

So I have no idea what the poster means by 'without any useless packages' but I can talk a little to why packaging i3 is good. Firstly, I like i3. Of all the tiling Window managers I've tried it seems to be the best mix of minimal, easy to understand, easy to configure and brings all the benefits of tiling WMs in terms of workflow and aesthetics. What i3 doesn't do out of the box is look very good or have many common…

Maybe I'm missing something but there's no option for i3 in that Manjaro URL. I currently use Regolith but I'm looking for something lighter but still doesn't force me to configure every single thing like battery or wifi.

The link doesn't work. That's just the page for the official releases. You have to go to Editions at the top of the page -> Community -> i3.

Re: I3wm and Ubuntu 20.04 server without any useless packages

#25

Post by Zhyl » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

GGfpc wrote: post #20

Zhyl wrote: post #7

So I have no idea what the poster means by 'without any useless packages' but I can talk a little to why packaging i3 is good. Firstly, I like i3. Of all the tiling Window managers I've tried it seems to be the best mix of minimal, easy to understand, easy to configure and brings all the benefits of tiling WMs in terms of workflow and aesthetics. What i3 doesn't do out of the box is look very good or have many common…

Maybe I'm missing something but there's no option for i3 in that Manjaro URL. I currently use Regolith but I'm looking for something lighter but still doesn't force me to configure every single thing like battery or wifi.

Make sure that your browser is directing you to the URL which includes the '#'. If it doesn't, you can find it under 'community' flavours.

edit: nope, you're right it isn't working!

Re: I3wm and Ubuntu 20.04 server without any useless packages

#26

Post by jplayer01 » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

Zhyl wrote: post #7

So I have no idea what the poster means by 'without any useless packages' but I can talk a little to why packaging i3 is good. Firstly, I like i3. Of all the tiling Window managers I've tried it seems to be the best mix of minimal, easy to understand, easy to configure and brings all the benefits of tiling WMs in terms of workflow and aesthetics. What i3 doesn't do out of the box is look very good or have many common…

After turning to Manjaro for my main distro, I feel like all the time I spent on trying to configure a base Arch install was totally wasted. The i3/awesome community editions are great - they are properly configured and setup with sane defaults and a minimum set of programs to ensure basic functionality you'd expect from your average OS (like wifi) works straight out of the box. I don't think I could go back to doing everything from scratch with Arch or even starting from Ubuntu (or other) where the default settings for i3/awesome are nigh unusable until you've sunk a significant amount of time into setting everything up.

Re: I3wm and Ubuntu 20.04 server without any useless packages

#27

Post by efazati » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 2:12 PM UTC

aneutron wrote: post #16

In my (albeit limited) experience, those "useless" packages tend to be not so useless in order to have a somewhat functional installation. Example: By default, Ubuntu+GNOME installs various utilities that you WILL need unless you want to do everything by hand. nm-applet, bluetooth applet, volume applet, etc. Of course you have to add this to the i3 configuration manually, but that's the beauty of running i3. Yes you…

You can include them based on your need instead of adding them because someone else likes to use them

Re: I3wm and Ubuntu 20.04 server without any useless packages

#28

Post by efazati » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

bjonnh wrote: post #11

It is still installing Bluetooth support, ansible, terraform and all kind of things. Maybe you could group these so they can be disabled individually. I guess the notion of "useless" package really differs from users to user and doesn't really allow for a "standardized minimalistic experience".

You are right about those packages. I removed them, I will try to make better packaging system for diffrent usage

Re: I3wm and Ubuntu 20.04 server without any useless packages

#29

Post by montecarl » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 2:21 PM UTC

vitorbaptistaa wrote: post #18

I just reinstalled my machine from Ubuntu 16.04 to 20.04. I'm using i3wm for a few years, and things never worked out of the box. The sound applet, VPN, and other small things that quickly add up. I'm now using Regolith [1] and loving it. It offers a clean and neat i3wm installation, but still uses Ubuntu's system admin tools. It was really simple to install: just install Ubuntu, add its PPA and run apt-get. I highly…

I will second this. I am also using regolith as a PPA on Ubuntu. Took some work to merge my i3 config with regolith's but it was worth it. Check it out if you currently use i3wm.

Re: I3wm and Ubuntu 20.04 server without any useless packages

#30

Post by k2enemy » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 2:22 PM UTC

efazati wrote: post #2

In this project, you can install i3 from the Ubuntu server without installing anything that you don't need.

To be honest, this looks a lot more like a script to set up your preferred environment, not a minimal i3 install. It includes a lot of packages like Firefox, docker, fish, etc that have nothing to do with i3.