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Creating ad hoc microphone arrays from personal devices (2019)

microsoft.com

21–30 of 55 posts

Re: Creating ad hoc microphone arrays from personal devices (2019)

#21
Interesting, doable and from my experience of this area, need a reference sound to calibrate, though that calibration could be ongoing for such things like this.

Gets down to matching a single sound and working out the timing of that sound from the multiple sources. Then you also need to factor in the frequency response as well.

That last part would be important to handle things like the table the devices are sat upon picking up vibrations from the desk. Remember that phones don't have a rubber base to isolate them from the table so any vibration of that surface would propagate into the device and microphone. Then the whole aspect of varying devices and with that, varying microphone quality and device housings. So calibrating at some level would be key for this to work, though doable and processing wise you could even run a master device and handle the processing there and remove the server aspect with some of the processing done upon each local device and passed onto the main device for correlating. Certainly some phones have the power to handle this type of affair to replace the server aspect. But that would be more work/effort and something that may well see later on. Though makes it harder to sell a bit of server processing software then.

Though one test I'd like to see this system handle would be how well it filters out those vibrations.

After all you don't want to hear somebody writing or putting a cup or other object down whilst somebody else is talking.

I'd also wonder what type of jitter tolerances they are working with across those devices and how that scales with devices/jitter - does jitter increase after so many devices.

Re: Creating ad hoc microphone arrays from personal devices (2019)

#22

This is a really interesting technical concept. Capturing high-quality audio in a meeting room for videoconferencing is a notoriously complicated problem. Microphones are crazy sensitive and pick up things like footsteps and conversations outside the door, shuffling feet and tapping on keyboards, and construction and HVAC noise like you wouldn't believe. So filtering those things out, and then capturing the best qual…

It's a hard and interesting signals problem with surely many other benefits but surely money would be better spent just buying better mics and audio gear for an office.

Re: Creating ad hoc microphone arrays from personal devices (2019)

#23
post #21

Interesting, doable and from my experience of this area, need a reference sound to calibrate, though that calibration could be ongoing for such things like this. Gets down to matching a single sound and working out the timing of that sound from the multiple sources. Then you also need to factor in the frequency response as well. That last part would be important to handle things like the table the devices are sat upo…

Could you do the reference sound beyond the range of human hearing so that you could do it continuously?

Re: Creating ad hoc microphone arrays from personal devices (2019)

#24

There are obvious(?) privacy issues and what not here. But ignoring all that for a second, it does sound pretty cool to be able to leverage all the little computers we walk around with. Think of all those shitty little video clips people take at a concert. Could all those be combined to make some high quality panoramic video? Probably a lot of other cool applications that I can't even comprehend for now. What a time…

Sounds like they aren't using any computing power of the little computing devices.

Re: Creating ad hoc microphone arrays from personal devices (2019)

#25
post #20

This is a really interesting technical concept. Capturing high-quality audio in a meeting room for videoconferencing is a notoriously complicated problem. Microphones are crazy sensitive and pick up things like footsteps and conversations outside the door, shuffling feet and tapping on keyboards, and construction and HVAC noise like you wouldn't believe. So filtering those things out, and then capturing the best qual…

> Capturing high-quality audio in a meeting room for videoconferencing is a notoriously complicated problem Not from my experience of 20 years ago setting up VC systems, biggest issue was video and making sure lighting was good, and plane wall behind (sky blue was good colour for that). Audio wise, was many desk standing mic's (can't recall main brand) but was a few. Did have one issue once with setting up a connecti…

Quality video is definitely hard too, but it's just not as important.

If we have beautiful, well-lit video feeds if every participant, but no one can hear what they're saying -- that's a deal breaker. The other way around, if we have clean, crisp audio from everyone and inconsistent video, at least the conversion can still move forward.

Re: Creating ad hoc microphone arrays from personal devices (2019)

#26
Does anyone have any insight into why neural nets are used for the "blind" beamforming? I don't have first hand experience with machine learning, but this just doesn't seem to me like a machine learning type of problem. I get it's not trivial, but it seems like there should be an analytic solution - more or less

Re: Creating ad hoc microphone arrays from personal devices (2019)

#27
post #23
post #21

Interesting, doable and from my experience of this area, need a reference sound to calibrate, though that calibration could be ongoing for such things like this. Gets down to matching a single sound and working out the timing of that sound from the multiple sources. Then you also need to factor in the frequency response as well. That last part would be important to handle things like the table the devices are sat upo…

Could you do the reference sound beyond the range of human hearing so that you could do it continuously?

Nope as different frequencies propergate at different speeds.

However the initial greeting at start of the meeting would be good enough to cover that. Though some feedback and constant recalibration would be ideal and doable, That covers things like people entering the room and briefly changing the rooms acoustics with the door open briefly. Then somebody closes a blind and things like that, even somebody moving a coffee cup on the table would have (whilst small) an impact upon the acoustics. Though in that last instance, somebody moving a cap nearer a device would have a bigger impact upon that single source.

Though easiest way would be having a sound source on the main camera that did a simple frequency sweep - if you wanted to use a reference point sound source for calibration. You may even get away with single calibration then, though dynamic calibration and using the meeting itself to constantly recalibrate, whilst more effort, would give a better result.

But be interesting seeing this in action and how they handle aspects like that.

Indeed, thinking it thru you could have each device as it joins into the meeting do a calibration tone sweep that the other devices would pick up. That approach may well be better as you could get a more accurate map of all microphones in relation to each other that way. So initial login/join of the devices would handle that aspect nicely.

Re: Creating ad hoc microphone arrays from personal devices (2019)

#28

This is a really interesting technical concept. Capturing high-quality audio in a meeting room for videoconferencing is a notoriously complicated problem. Microphones are crazy sensitive and pick up things like footsteps and conversations outside the door, shuffling feet and tapping on keyboards, and construction and HVAC noise like you wouldn't believe. So filtering those things out, and then capturing the best qual…

> And it's well-known that the "bowling alley" visual of meeting participants (camera at the end of a long conference table) isn't ideal. If each participant has their own laptop camera on themselves, it could be a vastly better experience for remote participants.

My company pushes us to have any conference that will include remote people from our desks, even if some or most of the attendees are in the same physical local. It means that no audio is dropped bec of too much cross-talk and that all attendees are on the same footing. Only real issue is that we don’t automatically get headsets, you need to request/expense it.

Re: Creating ad hoc microphone arrays from personal devices (2019)

#30

This is a really interesting technical concept. Capturing high-quality audio in a meeting room for videoconferencing is a notoriously complicated problem. Microphones are crazy sensitive and pick up things like footsteps and conversations outside the door, shuffling feet and tapping on keyboards, and construction and HVAC noise like you wouldn't believe. So filtering those things out, and then capturing the best qual…

> it's an insanely hard problem Not much: each participant has a pair of (amplitude, phase) values for each microphone. Filtering human voices and correlating sources to find the phase is not new.

Agree. It's even easy to do manually in audacity with recorded tracks. There are probably some ML innovations here (maybe isolating the voice signal from the background in a way that lets you label the phase info sufficiently to correlate it) but the main innovation that I can see is packaging it in a way that's useful in this context.
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