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YouGotListings (YC W11) looks to provide the best tools for real estate

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Re: YouGotListings (YC W11) looks to provide the best tools for real estate

#21
post #9

I cofounded a startup named RentRunner, in Boston, and spent a year trying to get a similar sounding system to be used by real estate brokers. We had an agent on our team, and he was our sales person. We could not find a model that would get us sales without expensive direct sales. And although direct sales seemed to work, the possible price points wouldn't support it. My experience was that real estate brokerages ha…

Thank your for the feedback. I agree with you on your points. I'll ping you separately for a more in-depth discussion.

Brokers are inherently lazy, too. That's the other missing piece of the puzzle. Meaning that no matter what you make for their industry, they're less likely to use it unless they can use it from bed (while still sleeping) and it costs them nothing (because the're broke).

So my advice is, take your revenue assumptions and divide by 100, then multiply your expenses by 5 and triple your timeline for adoption.

Re: YouGotListings (YC W11) looks to provide the best tools for real estate

#22
post #7

I come from Australia, have lived in the UK, Germany and Switzerland and now live in the US. What I find really interesting is just how badly real estate works online in the US. To quote Bart Simpson, it achieves what was previously thought physically impossible: it sucks and blows at the same time. In Australia there are basically two online sites for both rentals and sales: realestate.com.au and domain.com. They ha…

There are so many sites and nothing centralized has really taken off. Even when you boil it down to one city.

Wrong. There IS something centralized: it's called the Multiple Listing Service, and ONLY Brokers and Realtors have "access" to it. They are salespeople, and salespeople compete only with each other. That 6 percent commission is the unwavering aspect of their model -- they built it to ensure that it always gets dropped into their shark tank. Consumers do not benefit from this system, ever, and every single entity in the real estate industry wants to keep it that way.

Even the fact that brokers exist is a sign of market inefficiency. Why do I need an intermediary to find an apartment?

You don't. However, brokers are not the intermediaries; they are at the top of the pyramid scheme. After studying this industry from every possible angle, my conclusion is that purveyors of the current system are rotten to the core. Their lobbying group (the National Association of Realtors: http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s) is about as rotten as a swimming pool of maggot-covered dead skunks that's been sitting in the sun for a week.

The pecking order is as such:

  Broker Realtors + Mortgage Brokers  
  Agent Realtors  + Mortgage Loan Agents (Bankers)
  Leasing Agents (Realtors)
  Property Management Companies AKA "Landlords"
   
And all of them, working together, have only one incentive, and that is insanely high rents (yes, rents). As long as rents are high, the rest of their system is safe, and home ownership remains an unattainable pipe dream for most people. Which it really is, unless you're one of them. Realtors with their glossy booklets and shiny websites sell the illusion of ownership, and it works! Poof, and all of a sudden, it becomes so "necessary" to have a Realtor to help people navigate the scary world of shopping for a home. (See also: the housing boom of 2006.)

Build an excel spreadsheet that shows how much interest vs principle people pay on a typical 30-year loan over time. Now figure out how long it'll take to pay off the commission that your Realtor earns for his 2.5 hours of "work" on your behalf. Oh, and don't forget to include every penny of your life savings you've already forked over as the "down payment." (Down payments don't go toward equity, they go to pay the salespeople!) Pity the people who have been hoodwinked into thinking that their house payments are actually going to equity, that that 30-year mortgage means that they're going to own their house some day. The banks are too smart to let people do that, that's why they invented refinancing!

As long as the greatest portion of income people earn goes to rent, neither savings nor long-term equity can be obtained. As long as people are unable to build equity, they are trapped in a system that essentially forces them into paying whatever rents are demanded of them. Most people who live in Silicon Valley know this: 1K for a 0 bedroom apartment? Really?

The solution for consumers is NOT going to come by making it easier for Brokers and Landlords / Agents to hook up and control prices, that's for sure. This is a recipe for disaster on a grand scale.

Re: YouGotListings (YC W11) looks to provide the best tools for real estate

#23
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank your for the feedback. I agree with you on your points. I'll ping you separately for a more in-depth discussion.

Brokers are inherently lazy, too. That's the other missing piece of the puzzle. Meaning that no matter what you make for their industry, they're less likely to use it unless they can use it from bed (while still sleeping) and it costs them nothing (because the're broke). So my advice is, take your revenue assumptions and divide by 100, then multiply your expenses by 5 and triple your timeline for adoption.

That's awesome advice. We find it to be something like that too. My competitor actually did divide his price by 100 (almost, haha).

Re: YouGotListings (YC W11) looks to provide the best tools for real estate

#24
post #7

I come from Australia, have lived in the UK, Germany and Switzerland and now live in the US. What I find really interesting is just how badly real estate works online in the US. To quote Bart Simpson, it achieves what was previously thought physically impossible: it sucks and blows at the same time. In Australia there are basically two online sites for both rentals and sales: realestate.com.au and domain.com. They ha…

Very thoughtful response. I really appreciate your feedback. We have our reasons for that price, and might very likely change it in the future. Startups have to change or die. As with the US real estate suck, that I 100% agree. There are many many reasons why that is the case, and many startups try to solve this problem with no one succeeding. We are looking to be the one that eventually solves this hard problem, but…

I agree 100% on the pricing. You may have your reasons, but whatever they are, an extra $50 is not enough.

Perhaps you've found that real estate agents don't like metered pricing. That's cool, but I think you need to develop some kind of value proposition for the high end.

I know a guy who owns student properties in my town. He's given me loads of advice on how to break into the rental market; he is fascinating, and he owns over 200 properties in my area. I think he could really benefit from your service, especially the credit checks etc.

Consider this: the average student property in my area houses 4 people. Each of those people pay him, on average, $100 a month. So let's call it 4x200=800 people. That's $100x(4x200)=$80,000 a month for his business. I think your service could really benefit him, and you would be charging only $100 a month.

Your pricing is really low event for this guy's business, and I'm talking about one landlord in one small town in the United Kingdom. Recognise your market potential and price accordingly for that segment, you owe it to yourselves.

Re: YouGotListings (YC W11) looks to provide the best tools for real estate

#25
post #7

I come from Australia, have lived in the UK, Germany and Switzerland and now live in the US. What I find really interesting is just how badly real estate works online in the US. To quote Bart Simpson, it achieves what was previously thought physically impossible: it sucks and blows at the same time. In Australia there are basically two online sites for both rentals and sales: realestate.com.au and domain.com. They ha…

There are so many sites and nothing centralized has really taken off. Even when you boil it down to one city. Wrong. There IS something centralized: it's called the Multiple Listing Service, and ONLY Brokers and Realtors have "access" to it. They are salespeople, and salespeople compete only with each other. That 6 percent commission is the unwavering aspect of their model -- they built it to ensure that it always ge…

So do you have any idea where the solution is going to come from? I really like your analysis of the current situation.

Re: YouGotListings (YC W11) looks to provide the best tools for real estate

#26
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank your for the feedback. I agree with you on your points. I'll ping you separately for a more in-depth discussion.

Brokers are inherently lazy, too. That's the other missing piece of the puzzle. Meaning that no matter what you make for their industry, they're less likely to use it unless they can use it from bed (while still sleeping) and it costs them nothing (because the're broke). So my advice is, take your revenue assumptions and divide by 100, then multiply your expenses by 5 and triple your timeline for adoption.

On a serious note. Brokers are very hardworking. They may not be the most tech savvy people, but they most certainly are not lazy.

They do not have it easy, and technology is changing so fast, I think they'll have to as well.

Re: YouGotListings (YC W11) looks to provide the best tools for real estate

#27
post #7

I come from Australia, have lived in the UK, Germany and Switzerland and now live in the US. What I find really interesting is just how badly real estate works online in the US. To quote Bart Simpson, it achieves what was previously thought physically impossible: it sucks and blows at the same time. In Australia there are basically two online sites for both rentals and sales: realestate.com.au and domain.com. They ha…

There are so many sites and nothing centralized has really taken off. Even when you boil it down to one city. Wrong. There IS something centralized: it's called the Multiple Listing Service, and ONLY Brokers and Realtors have "access" to it. They are salespeople, and salespeople compete only with each other. That 6 percent commission is the unwavering aspect of their model -- they built it to ensure that it always ge…

How exactly does this conspiracy manage to overcome market forces to keep rents artificially high?

Re: YouGotListings (YC W11) looks to provide the best tools for real estate

#29
post #7

I come from Australia, have lived in the UK, Germany and Switzerland and now live in the US. What I find really interesting is just how badly real estate works online in the US. To quote Bart Simpson, it achieves what was previously thought physically impossible: it sucks and blows at the same time. In Australia there are basically two online sites for both rentals and sales: realestate.com.au and domain.com. They ha…

There are so many sites and nothing centralized has really taken off. Even when you boil it down to one city. Wrong. There IS something centralized: it's called the Multiple Listing Service, and ONLY Brokers and Realtors have "access" to it. They are salespeople, and salespeople compete only with each other. That 6 percent commission is the unwavering aspect of their model -- they built it to ensure that it always ge…

You and I must live on different planets, that doesn't remotely sound like the world I live in. And I have a great distaste for this industry.

Re: YouGotListings (YC W11) looks to provide the best tools for real estate

#30

I found my current apartment on Craigslist through an ad my landlord put up. I had to spend hours churning through what is essentially spam: brokers listing apartment or listing that they have listings but not actually giving out much information on individual places. Services like this one and Rentjuice are services for brokers to find landlords and property managers who want to rent their apartments. (unless I misu…

A good alternative is PadMapper.com. Somehow, they are able to cut out a ton of crap from the over postings. Worth a shot if you are looking for an apartment.

Padmapper is phenomenal, but craigslist sucks so bad, that it ends up just being mildly useful. The ability to constantly and repeatedly relist the same (often fictional) property really depresses me. So easy to fix, and would make life so much better for users, yet, it will never get fixed. And yet, craigslist continues to dominate so many markets. Why god, why?
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