Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#21

Post by kulkarnic » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 5:25 PM UTC

tokenadult wrote: post #7

Yet another Vivek Wadhwa story with his same pet theme. Here is my question: is there any Vivek Wadhwa story on this issue in which he shows detailed figures for NET immigration flows into and out of the United States in comparison to countries like China and India? Or does he consistently do as I have seen him do here and in other stories, relating individual anecdotes and asserting the existence of a problem (too f…

It isn't about US vs. India immigration. It is about US immigration vs. the cost/effort of starting up a company in India (by an Indian citizen).

No one's competing at this point to make it easier for "young people from African countries... to emigrate to those other countries". The low-hanging fruit is people of Indian/Chinese/whatever origin returning to their homeland and starting up the next big thing there, instead of the US.

In general, I agree with the article in that the US immigration policy is rather arrogant. It may have made sense at some point in the past, but with the distribution of opportunities changing, the US needs to make a better sales pitch.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#22

Post by ireadzalot » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 5:28 PM UTC

People with marketable skills and talents will eventually move to destinations that will favor them best. In the past and up to now, it has been the US. Tomorrow it could be Brazil, India, China etc. One of the best things about working in hi-tech sector is borders do not necessarily limit your potential to implement your ideas. Governments have the option to decide how welcoming they want to be.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#23

Post by PakG1 » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 5:29 PM UTC

tokenadult wrote: post #7

Yet another Vivek Wadhwa story with his same pet theme. Here is my question: is there any Vivek Wadhwa story on this issue in which he shows detailed figures for NET immigration flows into and out of the United States in comparison to countries like China and India? Or does he consistently do as I have seen him do here and in other stories, relating individual anecdotes and asserting the existence of a problem (too f…

Startup Chile, for which he's an advisor, is probably the best example I've ever seen of what a nation can do to try to attract entrepreneurs.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#24

Post by tptacek » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 5:30 PM UTC

PakG1 wrote: post #23

tokenadult wrote: post #7

Yet another Vivek Wadhwa story with his same pet theme. Here is my question: is there any Vivek Wadhwa story on this issue in which he shows detailed figures for NET immigration flows into and out of the United States in comparison to countries like China and India? Or does he consistently do as I have seen him do here and in other stories, relating individual anecdotes and asserting the existence of a problem (too f…

Startup Chile, for which he's an advisor, is probably the best example I've ever seen of what a nation can do to try to attract entrepreneurs.

Why's that?

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#25

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 5:36 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #19

tokenadult wrote: post #7

Yet another Vivek Wadhwa story with his same pet theme. Here is my question: is there any Vivek Wadhwa story on this issue in which he shows detailed figures for NET immigration flows into and out of the United States in comparison to countries like China and India? Or does he consistently do as I have seen him do here and in other stories, relating individual anecdotes and asserting the existence of a problem (too f…

It is difficult for foreigners to start companies in the EU, even modulo the fact that it's somewhat difficult for residents to start companies in parts of the EU. I don't know anything about Asian immigration, but I know a very little bit about EU policies, and I don't think they're a competitive threat to us here.

[deleted]

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#26

Post by moblivu » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 5:40 PM UTC

The problem is how difficult it is to start a startup somewhere else. Only the US has the investor power and mentality about it. Try finding an investor here in Canada or even a VC or Angel that knows the potential of the web..... of course there are, but the USA, especially Silicon Valley, is THE place to be!

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#27

Post by ajays » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 5:42 PM UTC

I have stopped reading what Vivek writes. It almost feels like he's writing inflammatory articles just to keep his name in print.

I came to this country (US) more than 20 years ago. The I.N.S. (Immigration and Naturalization Service) were as big dicks then as they are now. Nothing has changed. It's just plain old government bureaucracy; but in this instance, their clients can't vote either, so there's no fear of a backlash.

And yet, despite the INS's dickitude, the country churns out startups like crazy.

Why did the founder of Chatroulette move here, instead of China or India? I'll give you why: pound for pound, it is way easier to come to America, register your startup and get rolling than in any other country, bar none. (Aside: do read DeSoto's "The Mystery of Capital" if you get a chance).

Heck, why is Vivek Wadhwa in this country? Why isn't he in India, if things are so great there? I'll tell you why: because when all is said and done, there is NO country on earth as welcoming and safe for immigrants as the USA, bar none.

I have friends who've gone back to India. Most of them went for a variety of reasons; chiefly among them being family.

And I also know some who went back because their H1B visas expired; but you know what? It is good to see that. Just like seeds from a flower spread far and wide with the wind, I hope the seeds of entrepreneurship spread far and wide; the world needs more entrepreneurs. Silicon Valley has more than enough.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#28

Post by PakG1 » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 5:43 PM UTC

trotsky wrote: post #16

While the tax and jobs benefits are there, I'm not sure it's that big a deal. IT companies create less jobs per revenue dollar than traditional industries, do their manufacturing in asia and shift significant operations to overseas tax havens when they get big. It's not that I'm saying the US doesn't benefit from high tech startups, just that the effect is somewhat muted. On the other hand, with such a majority of th…

The biggest impact that tech companies provide to the economy is increasing productivity and creating new industries.

IBM, Microsoft, and Apple's contributions to creating the first personal computers when they started up created an entirely new segment of the IT industry that hadn't even been conceptualized before. As time passed, there were millions of people getting jobs as technicians, programmers, system administrators, and service providers.

Cisco, Sun Microsystems, and Netscape enabled the Internet to be a viable platform and communication medium. You had even more jobs created: more programmers, web developers, web designers, and service providers.

Google did their thing and revolutionized how people could monetize things on the Internet, and how people could get their websites, products, and services discovered. It`s pretty much because of them that many websites became viable businesses, to say nothing of how SEO also became an industry in its own right.

Now see Facebook, Twitter, Android (acquired by Google in 2005; if you want, you can throw Apple's iPhone group in there too, though by this time, they can no longer be counted as a startup). They've created social media ad agencies, app developer economic microcosms, and so on.

Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. The benefit that tech companies create is not from direct employment. It`s from overall worldwide productivity gains and creation of new industries. And if it happens in your home nation first, you get a head start to ride the wave before the wave really takes hold in other nations.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#29

Post by PakG1 » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 5:55 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #24

PakG1 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Startup Chile, for which he's an advisor, is probably the best example I've ever seen of what a nation can do to try to attract entrepreneurs.

Why's that?

Been discussed here a bit.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2240081

Basically, the program offers a $40k grant, which goes a long way in a lower cost country like Chile. Also, they model after the usual incubator stuff for helping entrepreneurs out.

Note that I said "best example I've ever seen of what a nation can do to try to attract entrepreneurs". That doesn't mean I think it's the best it could be, nor that I think it will work. I only think that it's the best I've ever seen.

If the US offered something on a similar scale (i.e. anyone accepted into ycombinator automatically gets a work visa, basically), I imagine that the US would have a huge edge in comparison. But the US isn't doing that right now, or definitely isn't advertising it worldwide like Startup Chile is trying to do.

edit: And maybe the US isn't doing that because it doesn't need to because the world still sees Silicon Valley as the peak. Time will tell. I'm only saying that if you compared policies apples to apples, and only policies, Chile's policies win out.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#30

Post by recoiledsnake » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 5:57 PM UTC

ajays wrote: post #27

I have stopped reading what Vivek writes. It almost feels like he's writing inflammatory articles just to keep his name in print. I came to this country (US) more than 20 years ago. The I.N.S. (Immigration and Naturalization Service) were as big dicks then as they are now. Nothing has changed. It's just plain old government bureaucracy; but in this instance, their clients can't vote either, so there's no fear of a ba…

>I came to this country (US) more than 20 years ago. The I.N.S. (Immigration and Naturalization Service) were as big dicks then as they are now.

Okay... so...? Did you wait 10 years for a Green Card while in immigration limbo? Do you even know the difference between then and now?

>And yet, despite the INS's dickitude, the country churns out startups like crazy.

So enough is enough? Will more hurt, esp with 10% unemployment? Maybe we should shutdown some VCs as well, since there are enough startups.

AFAIK the Chatroulette founder was on a temp visa and was exploring options for a longer term visa. Can you reference how he 'moved' here?

>And I also know some who went back because their H1B visas expired; but you know what? It is good to see that. Just like seeds from a flower spread far and wide with the wind, I hope the seeds of entrepreneurship spread far and wide; the worlds needs more entrepreneurs. Silicon Valley has more than enough.

Your argument doesn't make sense. According to you the US/Silicon Valley is the best place to breed startups.. but you want the potential founders to go elsewhere where they might not have the best chances. Does not compute.