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Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

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Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#21

Post by fakedang »

uk_programmer wrote: post #15
jimhefferon wrote: post #5

The article seemed to me to be a mix of two things, railing against the costs (blamed on the rise of administrators), and railing against the existence of diversity administrators. I'm a professor employed at my present institution, a small liberal arts school, since 1990. I am not an administrator of any kind, don't read the Chronicle , and don't understand where all the money goes. I will say though, that when I st…

Why is it a good thing there is more non-white students? Why does it matter what ethnicity they are if they have the right grades to go there? I don't give a shit about someone's sex or race when working with someone, nor do I go around a room counting how many white co-workers I have. I am baffled by it.

Tbh, diversity only seems to be a thing in America (and slowly creeping into the UK). I think it's partly more pronounced there because your race is significantly correlated to your income levels, which determine your ability to go to college. Meanwhile, most of Europe is homogenous largely, and thus insusceptible to any effects from diversity issues. Even in the UK, the most diverse European country, except for some Windrush immigrants, most immigrant groups such as the South Asians have largely been able to transcend the income divide between white and non-white.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#22

Post by fastball »

dmos62 wrote: post #18
fastball wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am using national statistics given a lack of information by the GP. If the GP wants to update with a more accurate location, they are free to, and we can have this discussion with better accuracy. Without that, the "story in my head" is, in fact, the most likely.

You threw around racial discrimination because the national average white-concentration is 10% off from what the other commentor said, while, at the same time, again, you don't even know where the school is within US. Your use of statistics is a bad kind of quick-think. Edit: noticed your nickname is fastball. A bit ironic.

When did I throw around racial discrimination? Again, if the GP wants to update with more accurate racial distribution numbers for their area, this conversation can move forward. Until then, my interpretation is the most likely. It is just as likely that GP's institution is in an area that has more whites than the national average than it is that there are fewer. Therefore my analysis is the correct one until we get an update.

EDIT: it seems like GP teaches in Virginia, a state that is 94.2% white (alone). Assuming that is in fact that correct state, you are right that I spoke too quickly. The non-white population at this school should presumably be 5.8% if the makeup of the local area is important, as you claim.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#23

Post by ArnoVW »

fastball wrote: post #10
jimhefferon wrote: post #5

The article seemed to me to be a mix of two things, railing against the costs (blamed on the rise of administrators), and railing against the existence of diversity administrators. I'm a professor employed at my present institution, a small liberal arts school, since 1990. I am not an administrator of any kind, don't read the Chronicle , and don't understand where all the money goes. I will say though, that when I st…

The US is 72.4% white. You would then expect there to be 27.6% non-white students at any particular institution, assuming no racial discrimination, etc. So then why is 40% non-white a desirable outcome? I thought the point was to compensate for exclusion / marginalization / discrimination, in which case the target should be that aforementioned 27.6%. EDIT: since many people are replying to me saying that using the na…

Those averages are across the country. The distribution will be hugely different depending on whether you are in Iowa or Florida.

Moreover, the distribution is not equal across ages. And since only young people go to universities, this has a huge effect.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#24

Post by fastball »

battery_cowboy wrote: post #17
fastball wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am using national statistics given a lack of information by the GP. If the GP wants to update with a more accurate location, they are free to, and we can have this discussion with better accuracy. Without that, the "story in my head" is, in fact, the most likely.

Also: It doesn't even matter what statistics are correct, your assumption that the original commenter was celebrating antiwhite sentiment is absurd by itself. Original: You're using statistics for the whole USA. There are half a million people here, you're just regressing to the mean, some states have a larger percent nonwhite people. Hawaii has 25 percent whites, so my estimate was correct. Edit: also, your stats ar…

I'm confused, why are you going on about Hawaii?

From looking at the GP's account info, they seem to teach at a school in Virginia, which is 94.2% white.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#27

Post by simfoo »

martin_a wrote: post #14

One can only shake his head when you hear about how things work in America. Why are you so hostile against each other and/or the weaker/younger/non-wealthy people? In most of Europe, education is free. You'll obviously have to take care of your own cost of living, but there are no real fees where you come out of your education and have 100k in debt. Why do things in America work so different? It's not (yet) a third w…

My guess: It is politically wanted to have graduates that will take any job because they are deep into debt with no chance of getting rid of it through bankruptcy. This pressure keeps wages down and "motivation" up.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#28

Post by johndoe42377 »

The better analogue would be a paid admission into a high-society "priest" social class.

For the money one have to pay one would receive a certificate of belonging. Exactly like some priest after passing through some selective religious school.

Arguably, aside from a STEM degree from a few top technical schools, like MIT, CMU, Caltech, and Yale, as an exception, the social value of a degree is exactly like that of being a priest.

Not so smart children of upper middle classes have to go somewhere. Liberal arts "education" is exactly for them.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#29

Post by fastball »

ArnoVW wrote: post #23
fastball wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is 72.4% white. You would then expect there to be 27.6% non-white students at any particular institution, assuming no racial discrimination, etc. So then why is 40% non-white a desirable outcome? I thought the point was to compensate for exclusion / marginalization / discrimination, in which case the target should be that aforementioned 27.6%. EDIT: since many people are replying to me saying that using the na…

Those averages are across the country. The distribution will be hugely different depending on whether you are in Iowa or Florida. Moreover, the distribution is not equal across ages. And since only young people go to universities, this has a huge effect.

Are colleges only supposed to attract people from the local area and therefore reflect local demographics? That seems a bit backwards to me.

Regardless, GP seems to teach at a school in Virginia, which is 94.2% white.

That is a good point about how racial demographics can change between age groups though. Do you have more accurate numbers that we can use in this regard?

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#30

Post by battery_cowboy »

martin_a wrote: post #14

One can only shake his head when you hear about how things work in America. Why are you so hostile against each other and/or the weaker/younger/non-wealthy people? In most of Europe, education is free. You'll obviously have to take care of your own cost of living, but there are no real fees where you come out of your education and have 100k in debt. Why do things in America work so different? It's not (yet) a third w…

I don't agree with this sentiment and I believe it's based on a big lie, but here's what some of the "average" Americans might think:

"I'm an American, my ancestors for generations have pioneered the frontier and could only rely on themselves. I don't like the idea of helping some lazy bum get their art degree on my dime, so I'm against free college. I'm a working man, and my son will be too, or he'll get a degree as an engineer or scientist and be able to make enough money to pay his loans. My daughter will get married and have babies. That's the way it's been and America has been awesome forever, so I don't see why we should follow Europe, who has so many countries in debt crisis that couldn't pull themselves up like America did."

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