Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#21

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

JoshTriplett wrote: post #13

nerdjon wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am hoping that Apple being involved will keep this as privacy respecting as it reasonably can be given what it is doing. I am generally someone that takes privacy very seriously, I mostly avoid Google products and others for this reason. But... this may be a time that the privacy concerns are worth loosening a bit for the good of this. But that comes with the caveat that I hope this is disabled when this is all don…

> But... this may be a time that the privacy concerns are worth loosening a bit for the good of this. But that comes with the caveat that I hope this is disabled when this is all done, and preferably the code removed completely. Any right you're willing to give up now, you've demonstrated a willingness to give up. You won't get it back. Either it'll remain lost forever, or it'll be used as evidence for a future propo…

I don't understand this absolutist mindset. It doesn't have to work this way. We can have, say, the draft - an absolutely whopping restriction on civil liberties - during WWII but get rid of it when it's no longer needed.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#22

Post by CubsFan1060 » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

jefftk wrote: post #10

> would allow more individuals to participate, if they choose to opt in I don't see how this can work unless it gets very high distribution. I wonder if local governments might do something where the shelter-in-place orders are lifted for some categories of people conditional on running the app?

Given the number of people wearing masks, I think this would have a decent opt-in rate. Especially since, for most people, this is much easier than wearing a mask.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#23

Post by swiley » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

jefftk wrote: post #10

> would allow more individuals to participate, if they choose to opt in I don't see how this can work unless it gets very high distribution. I wonder if local governments might do something where the shelter-in-place orders are lifted for some categories of people conditional on running the app?

I’d be ok with this as long is it doesn’t require one of those awful nose swabs.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#24

Post by riffic » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

I just can't wait to see this being turned against us.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#25

Post by simonsaidit » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

Does this then allow us to run this in the background on iphone. The Danish and Norwegian governments are looking at using a GPS+Bluetooth based version because iPhone is so common and not able to work with Bluetooth when the app is not active is their argument. Also based on a centralized server. My hope was apple would in this circumstance allow Bluetooth to work differently so avoid unnecessary location data.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#26

Post by aazaa » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

Why is this API even necessary? Isn't every individual with a smart phone already tracked de facto?

Why add a technological fig-leaf to what is by now a deplorable privacy situation? Just roll with it, change whatever laws need to be changed, and be done with it. The data collection capabilities already exist to do contact tracing, it seems.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#27

Post by Analemma_ » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 5:39 PM UTC

For context, start with https://www.vox.com/2020/4/10/21215494/coronavirus-plans-soc...

The tl;dr is that without a huge, nigh-omniscient program to trace individual cases, we have no choice but to go on and off Covid lockdown for a year or more, with potentially devastating economic consequences.

Having Apple and Google develop a built-in tracing program to their phones with firm privacy guarantees is not good, but it might be the least-bad solution we have right now.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#28

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

jefftk wrote: post #10

> would allow more individuals to participate, if they choose to opt in I don't see how this can work unless it gets very high distribution. I wonder if local governments might do something where the shelter-in-place orders are lifted for some categories of people conditional on running the app?

[deleted]

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#29

Post by maxerickson » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

hprotagonist wrote: post #5

it is just shockingly important that we come out of this _without_ a dystopian nightmare of a surveillance state. That apple's involved in this is hopeful -- their earlier work on anonymizing Maps.app directions is well worth thinking about here. tl;dr your route is broken up into n chunks, each chunk gets a uuid that isn't tied to your handset, and so serverside nobody knows where Bob's Iphone just asked to go. [0]…

The question is when we get out of this, what do we do about the existing dystopian nightmare surveillance:

https://twitter.com/MikaelThalen/status/1243281598037913600

Look how fancy the UI is!

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#30

Post by tengbretson » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

For the last 4 years I've read a constant stream of articles about how "This will be the end of our democracy", "Democracy is under threat!", etc.

If we as a society agree to ubiquitous, mandatory location tracking and a complete suspension of the right to assembly in response to this virus then we never deserved a democracy in the first place.