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Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

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Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#21

Post by cyberbanjo »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #12
cheez wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is poverty in this respect?

Not necessarily a lack of wealth but a decrease in the material quality of life we take for granted. For example, most people take having bread for granted. If you wish to become minimalist, the best way to attain bread is to buy it. If you wish to become self reliant then you must possess ingredients and tools for making bread such as flour, yeast, a pan and an oven. To be minimalist and self reliant you must forgo…

Why does millet pass but bread doesn't? You dont mean the intersection includes growing millet, do you?

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#22

Post by pfranz »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #4

Two ideas which often I encounter together yet I have grown to find incompatible are self reliance and minimalism. If you wish to become more self reliant i.e. more able to handle for yourself rather than through another's labor the impositions you create in the world, you will find yourself needing to masters, access and eventual own many more tools and material. My father, a man capable of building or repairing alm…

I have noticed that people pushing minimalism...or at least the idea of "throw it away and buy it if you ever end up needing it" is a luxury that I think many people take for granted. Even if you're not privileged I think there's value in consciously assessing where in your life you want to be minimal and where you don't. I just went through my old tech stuff and recycled cellphones so old they may not even connect to the network, cables and adaptors to hardware I no longer own, and piles of network cables that came free with things. I slimed them down to just a few of each with the recent free time I've had.

As I got more serious about cooking I donated a lot of extra pans and doo-dads. Previously, I would just collect things and as I learned more about what made something good and why, I could narrow down to 1 or 2 higher quality items (knives, pans, etc). As I learned more techniques, I needed fewer specialty items.

To your point, having a lawn service means not needing a mower. Hiring out a painting service means not having old buckets, brushes, tarps, etc, laying around.

I do think (at least Americans) hoard. I know there's been a few times where I know I had something, but I didn't know where and considered just buying another. To me, that's worse than donating or giving it away years before. I know a lot of people pay monthly for self-storage, but probably don't know what's in there or wouldn't take the time to retrieve something. To me, this is what the Marie Kondo book was targeting.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#23

Post by throwaway44532 »

clairity wrote: post #7

> “The ultimate minimalist is a hermit, a recluse, or a monk,” he says. “And to me, that’s not gonna change the world.” chinese historical/wuxia dramas often heavily feature taoist/buddhist “grandmasters”, who typically have (near-)superhuman abilities (from years of meditation on enlightenment, presumably). yet they’re reluctant to use those abilities because they also strive for detachment from the world and its ba…

That’s neat. It sounds like some kind of “Spiritual Prime Directive.”

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#24

Post by voxl »

pfranz wrote: post #22
DubiousPusher wrote: post #4

Two ideas which often I encounter together yet I have grown to find incompatible are self reliance and minimalism. If you wish to become more self reliant i.e. more able to handle for yourself rather than through another's labor the impositions you create in the world, you will find yourself needing to masters, access and eventual own many more tools and material. My father, a man capable of building or repairing alm…

I have noticed that people pushing minimalism...or at least the idea of "throw it away and buy it if you ever end up needing it" is a luxury that I think many people take for granted. Even if you're not privileged I think there's value in consciously assessing where in your life you want to be minimal and where you don't. I just went through my old tech stuff and recycled cellphones so old they may not even connect t…

There is another side to this where "stuff" becomes a liability. If I know I'm going to be moving frequently, having stuff is expensive, minimalism becomes a frugal option.

To this point, there is a certain luxury in being able to keep stuff around, to even have the space for it to begin with. If I own a studio apartment I don't have room for random 2x4's to come save the metaphorical day.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#25

Post by jcims »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #4

Two ideas which often I encounter together yet I have grown to find incompatible are self reliance and minimalism. If you wish to become more self reliant i.e. more able to handle for yourself rather than through another's labor the impositions you create in the world, you will find yourself needing to masters, access and eventual own many more tools and material. My father, a man capable of building or repairing alm…

I’m processing your comment because i think i agree. The problem is that ‘minimalist’ is a little squishy. It would be hard to argue that the Amish aren’t self-reliant. I’m just trying to figure out if they would be considered minimalist. They are low on consumerism, but they have sprawl. Relatively large farms with lots of animals and barns and equipment. Dunno.

In my own little vision for a self reliant future i see room for lots of stuff...buildings, equipment, many tools, small ag, etc. Definitely in line with your comment.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#27

Post by DubiousPusher »

jcims wrote: post #25
DubiousPusher wrote: post #4

Two ideas which often I encounter together yet I have grown to find incompatible are self reliance and minimalism. If you wish to become more self reliant i.e. more able to handle for yourself rather than through another's labor the impositions you create in the world, you will find yourself needing to masters, access and eventual own many more tools and material. My father, a man capable of building or repairing alm…

I’m processing your comment because i think i agree. The problem is that ‘minimalist’ is a little squishy. It would be hard to argue that the Amish aren’t self-reliant. I’m just trying to figure out if they would be considered minimalist. They are low on consumerism, but they have sprawl. Relatively large farms with lots of animals and barns and equipment. Dunno. In my own little vision for a self reliant future i se…

Amish are definitely not minimalist. The array of tools Amish carpenters have and are skilled with is very impressive.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#28

Post by DubiousPusher »

cyberbanjo wrote: post #21
DubiousPusher wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily a lack of wealth but a decrease in the material quality of life we take for granted. For example, most people take having bread for granted. If you wish to become minimalist, the best way to attain bread is to buy it. If you wish to become self reliant then you must possess ingredients and tools for making bread such as flour, yeast, a pan and an oven. To be minimalist and self reliant you must forgo…

Why does millet pass but bread doesn't? You dont mean the intersection includes growing millet, do you?

As far as I know millet can be eaten as a whole grain cooked with water or milk over an open flame. This would be akin to eating kernels of wheat without grinding them to flour and baking them with other ingredients.

So you could just eat wheat but IDK how digestible that is. Perhaps someone here does?Cream of Wheat and Malt'O'Meal are the closest I've had.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#29

Post by DubiousPusher »

voxl wrote: post #24
pfranz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have noticed that people pushing minimalism...or at least the idea of "throw it away and buy it if you ever end up needing it" is a luxury that I think many people take for granted. Even if you're not privileged I think there's value in consciously assessing where in your life you want to be minimal and where you don't. I just went through my old tech stuff and recycled cellphones so old they may not even connect t…

There is another side to this where "stuff" becomes a liability. If I know I'm going to be moving frequently, having stuff is expensive, minimalism becomes a frugal option. To this point, there is a certain luxury in being able to keep stuff around, to even have the space for it to begin with. If I own a studio apartment I don't have room for random 2x4's to come save the metaphorical day.

Absolutely. Self reliance is also a kind of luxury, that I wouldn't necessarily call better than minimalism only that the two are in contention.

Those 2x4s saved the literal day for us as the time away would've cost us a day's work ;)

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#30

Post by hannob »

pfranz wrote: post #22
DubiousPusher wrote: post #4

Two ideas which often I encounter together yet I have grown to find incompatible are self reliance and minimalism. If you wish to become more self reliant i.e. more able to handle for yourself rather than through another's labor the impositions you create in the world, you will find yourself needing to masters, access and eventual own many more tools and material. My father, a man capable of building or repairing alm…

I have noticed that people pushing minimalism...or at least the idea of "throw it away and buy it if you ever end up needing it" is a luxury that I think many people take for granted. Even if you're not privileged I think there's value in consciously assessing where in your life you want to be minimal and where you don't. I just went through my old tech stuff and recycled cellphones so old they may not even connect t…

> I have noticed that people pushing minimalism...or at least the idea of "throw it away and buy it if you ever end up needing it" is a luxury that I think many people take for granted.

I am inclined to disagree here and will say you're not making the full calculation.

One of the biggest costs that most people have in their life is paying for a place to live (be it rent or buying and maybe paying back for that). If you have fewer things this allows you to have a smaller space to live in. The reduced costs from that will more than make up for the occasional "I have to buy something that I might still have if I hadn't gotten rid of it a few years ago".

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