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I'm calling Bullshit on Medtronic's Open Sourcing of a ventilator design

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Re: I'm calling Bullshit on Medtronic's Open Sourcing of a ventilator design

#21

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

newyankee wrote: post #3

I wonder if there is a project where a cheaper hospital for a third world country can be created by using tech which is old but not covered under current IP (expired patents). I mean i believe stuff like MRI cannot be manufactured by non large manufacturers but what about all other machines. My guess is the bottleneck would be no one except current manufacturers make it at scale to do it cheap enough. It would be a g…

The Airon ventilator Ford is teaming up on is only produced thrice daily. Being mechanical only it should be easier to ramp up production and testing with less need for externally sourced parts.

Re: I'm calling Bullshit on Medtronic's Open Sourcing of a ventilator design

#22

Post by dehrmann »

jacquesm wrote: post #14

Medtronic's slogan ought to be 'yesterday's tech for tomorrows prices'.

I think this is most things that use tech that aren't tech companies. Read up on airline reservation systems and the IRS's computer system--they're ancient. Outside of tech, I think there's a notion that these are one-off projects (design and build X) and not large upfront investments that need continuous work to still be maintainable.

Even when you bring tech into your personal life, remember that it's one more thing you need to patch, backup, replace, etc.

Re: I'm calling Bullshit on Medtronic's Open Sourcing of a ventilator design

#23

Post by m463 »

dehrmann wrote: post #20
jacquesm wrote: post #14

Medtronic's slogan ought to be 'yesterday's tech for tomorrows prices'.

I wonder what a TI-89 sells for these days.

Are you referring to "calculators approved for standardized tests"?

$100 for a Ti-84 is definitely a price anomaly.

Re: I'm calling Bullshit on Medtronic's Open Sourcing of a ventilator design

#24

Post by devy »

dehrmann wrote: post #18
karthikb wrote: post #9

Not only are the files incomplete to actually go into production, they’ve picked a model where the components are not readily available on the open market in quantities large enough to have an impact corresponding to effort. IC4 is some variant of the ST10F27 (can’t make out the last digit from the low res pdf they’ve provided), and there are only a few thousand of all variants of that chip available online with quot…

It looks like this family of ventilators is not new. It's not surprising that it uses ICs that are older and harder to source because there was never a need to upgrade them. Maybe this is on us, the tech industry, for doing a lousy job at supporting old technology and being so eager to move to the next version.

Medtronic should not be making such a big fuzz on media about "opening up design/open sourcing" their entry level ventilators consciously knowing their true intent was never meant to help others to mass produce their ventilators due to concealing mechanical drawings, software, and BOMs and no MCU for the model to support mass production.

If you know there is never a chance someone could mass produce your machine to threat your revenue, it's disingenuous at best to claim open sourcing your 15 year old modal could help for other to mass produce ventilators in the next few days or weeks (NOT YEARS!!!).

It just doesn't help in short time and in long term it doesn't matter because we need the ventilators NOW!

Re: I'm calling Bullshit on Medtronic's Open Sourcing of a ventilator design

#25

Post by karthikb »

devy wrote: post #24
dehrmann wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like this family of ventilators is not new. It's not surprising that it uses ICs that are older and harder to source because there was never a need to upgrade them. Maybe this is on us, the tech industry, for doing a lousy job at supporting old technology and being so eager to move to the next version.

Medtronic should not be making such a big fuzz on media about "opening up design/open sourcing" their entry level ventilators consciously knowing their true intent was never meant to help others to mass produce their ventilators due to concealing mechanical drawings, software, and BOMs and no MCU for the model to support mass production. If you know there is never a chance someone could mass produce your machine to t…

Exactly.

The press reads as if anyone with access to a factory capable of manufacturing electrical systems with custom enclosures could pull the files, place some orders, and start pumping units out as soon as their tooling was ready.

Re: I'm calling Bullshit on Medtronic's Open Sourcing of a ventilator design

#26

Post by newyankee »

bilbo0s wrote: post #10
newyankee wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal story: Once upon a time Software piracy was rampant in India. However in my city a coalition of software cos joined hand with local law enforcement and did unscheduled raids on facilities like some educational institutions suspected of piracy. It turned out in one place money authorized for software licenses were absorbed by the procurement dept (1 person) and he installed pirated software instead.

I think you may be misapprehending the implication HN user "kick" may be making. I think "kick" means that there are developing nations that don't care about IP law. The authorities in these nations are not going to help anyone arrest anyone. In fact, in some developing nations, the authorities may actually be the ones infringing the IP. I know for a fact this is the case in Cuba. Of course Cuba's doctors are world r…

But i think what is going to happen is that in the reverse globalization process that is possibly going on, countries will pressurize other countries to safeguard their IP and enforce it in more serious ways.

I really wish healthcare gets decoupled from typical capitalism (money at all costs) to more regulated version (10% margin over 10 year, IP sharing ) or something like that over the next few years or decades. I guess mistrust between countries means it won't happen.

Re: I'm calling Bullshit on Medtronic's Open Sourcing of a ventilator design

#27

Post by newyankee »

adammunich wrote: post #12
newyankee wrote: post #3

I wonder if there is a project where a cheaper hospital for a third world country can be created by using tech which is old but not covered under current IP (expired patents). I mean i believe stuff like MRI cannot be manufactured by non large manufacturers but what about all other machines. My guess is the bottleneck would be no one except current manufacturers make it at scale to do it cheap enough. It would be a g…

I'm almost ready to publish something like that, finishing up the documentation tonight hopefully.

for ventilators or in general ?

Re: I'm calling Bullshit on Medtronic's Open Sourcing of a ventilator design

#28

Post by karthikb »

karthikb wrote: post #9

Not only are the files incomplete to actually go into production, they’ve picked a model where the components are not readily available on the open market in quantities large enough to have an impact corresponding to effort. IC4 is some variant of the ST10F27 (can’t make out the last digit from the low res pdf they’ve provided), and there are only a few thousand of all variants of that chip available online with quot…

[Follow up]. They just released gerbers, BOMs, and other documents. Some key parts are still unavailable in quantity, unfortunately.
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