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In slime molds, evolution selects 'loners' who refrain from collective behavior

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21–30 of 38 posts

Re: In slime molds, evolution selects 'loners' who refrain from collective behavior

#21

While human social loners fit the mould, I don't think that's the lone point we should get out of this. What is actually beneficial to society (whether mold or human) is diversity in genetics, neuro-diversity, and in general.

... and the story here is that it can be a real stretch to recognize the value in slimy behavior.

Re: In slime molds, evolution selects 'loners' who refrain from collective behavior

#22

While human social loners fit the mould, I don't think that's the lone point we should get out of this. What is actually beneficial to society (whether mold or human) is diversity in genetics, neuro-diversity, and in general.

So, for one kind of "loner", the psychopaths with their psychopathy, as they relate to general human society and culture:

- do psychopaths prey on and drag down society in most circumstances until there's an "evolutionary bottleneck" and they're the only ones with the will-to-power and ability to bring a "remnant" portion of humanity through dire circumstances that would otherwise lead that portion perishing? ... are they the failsafe?

- is psychopathy an emergent always-negative phenomenon that arises randomly once in a while as a result of random couplings among a pool of people on whom not-quite-psychopathic-behavior-derived-from-genetic-traits confers survival benefits and perhaps overall good to society?

- or are psychopaths on overall good for society? do they always confer benefit even though we perceive them negatively?

- other alternatives?

[edit: punctuation]

Re: In slime molds, evolution selects 'loners' who refrain from collective behavior

#24
post #22

While human social loners fit the mould, I don't think that's the lone point we should get out of this. What is actually beneficial to society (whether mold or human) is diversity in genetics, neuro-diversity, and in general.

So, for one kind of "loner", the psychopaths with their psychopathy, as they relate to general human society and culture: - do psychopaths prey on and drag down society in most circumstances until there's an "evolutionary bottleneck" and they're the only ones with the will-to-power and ability to bring a "remnant" portion of humanity through dire circumstances that would otherwise lead that portion perishing? ... are…

I read a game theory paper a while ago (can't find a link, but maybe someone will remember it) that suggested a stable small population of defectors (ie, psychopaths) does confer a benefit to the overall group in a cooperative public goods game. if the group becomes accustomed to having zero defectors (ie, excessively trusting), the spontaneous emergence of even one defector will wreak havoc. if there are too many, the whole thing falls apart because there is no cooperation. so the small population of defectors provides something like immunity to the whole group.

could just be a consequence of the model they chose, but interesting to think about nonetheless. I'd be very grateful if someone could remember the name of the paper!

Re: In slime molds, evolution selects 'loners' who refrain from collective behavior

#25
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at Satya Nadella and his spl needs kid. Good example of how dealing with someone with diff needs shapes ones experiences and thinking and actions. He constantly talks about empathy in ways you won't find others doing. Ofcourse what you learn from dealing with people with different needs depends on your own personality, needs, circumstances etc. What is interesting to me at work, is lot of people struggle to deal…

For people that flagged my message: "The word neurodiversity is attributed to Judy Singer, an Australian social scientist on the autism spectrum, who used the term in her sociology honors thesis published in 1999." ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurodiversity ). You can bury your head in the sand, that doesn't change the meaning of words. Also, it's is quite ironical that people advocating for it can't handle an op…

NO. People aren't flagging you for defining neurodiversity accurately. They're flagging you for questioning that high-needs people with Autism add no value to human society.

I'm happy to say it: that's a pretty terrible opinion to have.

Re: In slime molds, evolution selects 'loners' who refrain from collective behavior

#26
post #3

This activity can sometimes be annoying in biology experiments, especially when you get down to the bacterial size and do measurements on the population. Think the average expression of gene X is 100? Well, it is, with 90% of the population expressing the gene at 111 and 10% not expressing it at all. Unlike computers, cells like to do their own thing :(

i can assure you that if you counted the amount of processors or perhaps independent computers in what's commonly referred to as a 'computer' you'd be surprised the thing actually responds to input in a somewhat predictable way.

Re: In slime molds, evolution selects 'loners' who refrain from collective behavior

#27
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For people that flagged my message: "The word neurodiversity is attributed to Judy Singer, an Australian social scientist on the autism spectrum, who used the term in her sociology honors thesis published in 1999." ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurodiversity ). You can bury your head in the sand, that doesn't change the meaning of words. Also, it's is quite ironical that people advocating for it can't handle an op…

NO. People aren't flagging you for defining neurodiversity accurately. They're flagging you for questioning that high-needs people with Autism add no value to human society. I'm happy to say it: that's a pretty terrible opinion to have.

Really remarkable that somebody could completely miss the fact that most people consider the opinion "I'm skeptical these people have any value whatsoever" execrable.

Re: In slime molds, evolution selects 'loners' who refrain from collective behavior

#28
post #22

While human social loners fit the mould, I don't think that's the lone point we should get out of this. What is actually beneficial to society (whether mold or human) is diversity in genetics, neuro-diversity, and in general.

So, for one kind of "loner", the psychopaths with their psychopathy, as they relate to general human society and culture: - do psychopaths prey on and drag down society in most circumstances until there's an "evolutionary bottleneck" and they're the only ones with the will-to-power and ability to bring a "remnant" portion of humanity through dire circumstances that would otherwise lead that portion perishing? ... are…

Speaking as someone who used to worry about people so much, even those large degrees from my circle, that I'd drag myself down to very depressive episodes, I can see how some amount of psychopathy would be selected evolutionarily. Besides that, any work where you're dealing with people in pain such as a soldier, police, medics, etc, it's not often beneficial to be squeamish to others' pain, especially as a medical professional since the pain (negativity) you induce will often have positive effects. Perhaps psychopathy is just an extremely selective form of this.

Re: In slime molds, evolution selects 'loners' who refrain from collective behavior

#29

While human social loners fit the mould, I don't think that's the lone point we should get out of this. What is actually beneficial to society (whether mold or human) is diversity in genetics, neuro-diversity, and in general.

>beneficial to society

Isn't the point that being a 'loner' is beneficial to the individual (slimemold), regardless of society?

Re: In slime molds, evolution selects 'loners' who refrain from collective behavior

#30
I think being a loner is a high variance strategy. In a majority of the time, it hurts you in our society. But certain individuals will see huge levels of success.

It's similar to the genetics of schizophrenia. Families with genetic schizophrenia and more specifically individuals with high chances of mental illness often see bifurcated life outcomes, they are both more likely to end up down and out, homeless, in a mental hospital etc. But they are also more likely to see outsized success, academically and business wise. This has been studied and proven. It's common among siblings, one succumbing to schizophrenia, the other reaching upper echelons of society.

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