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Antique 4x5 camera creates 20 micron photolithography masks [video]

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Re: Antique 4x5 camera creates 20 micron photolithography masks [video]

#21

Post by Finnucane »

foldr wrote: post #19
madaxe_again wrote: post #4

I used to travel with a crown graphic - pretty much the same camera as in the video, shooting colour positive. You can do some great stuff with them, and tilt-shift is trivial, if that’s your thing. Quality on slow film is just crazy - I’ve a shot of an ex, she’s half-frame, and you can see the second hand on her watch - you can get very fine focus with a loupe, and having a Polaroid back to do some instant tests was…

Are you sure you mean a Crown Graphic? A Crown Graphic is about as different as it's possible to be from the camera in the video while still being a 4x5 camera ( https://vintagecameralab.com/wp-content/uploads/graflex-crow... ). It also doesn't make tilt-shift movements as easy as you're suggesting.

The camera in the video is a Graflex Graphic View, so made by the same manufacturer, but yeah, totally different in use. A Crown does not have the same level of movements. But they [Graphic Views] are relative bargains for view cameras if you can find one in decent shape.

Re: Antique 4x5 camera creates 20 micron photolithography masks [video]

#22

Post by bane »

One of my coworkers did his dissertation on photolithography, I grew up in a family printing shop and we followed a remarkably similar process to generate the metal offset plates that were used in the presses. It turns out that the processes are so similar that my colleague and I often frequently remark about it during idle chit-chat.

There's pitifully few good explanation videos about the printing version of this process, but here's a quick video (in Chinese, but if you watch the OP's video this one should be easy to follow) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KENIyBWNhyk

The process in the printing industry has gotten very refined as well: you can go directly from a digital image file to a plate in one entirely automated step:

https://youtu.be/mA8Dnp0rp3Y

https://youtu.be/TeJ_STTfBsI

Re: Antique 4x5 camera creates 20 micron photolithography masks [video]

#23

Post by bane »

chongli wrote: post #20

This is so cool! Questions for engineers: How much work would it take to go from this process to producing a working chip in his garage, like a 6502 or something? Would it be at all feasible? He did point out a ton of defects in the final product, probably due to dust or scratches in his equipment/materials. Would it be possible to clean this up enough to get 1-2 usable chips from a single sheet of 4x5 film? Without…

I can't answer most of this since I don't know, but the first 6502 was fabricated at 8 microns. I wonder if a chip made at 15-20 microns would work just as well?

Re: Antique 4x5 camera creates 20 micron photolithography masks [video]

#26

Post by Cerium »

chongli wrote: post #20

This is so cool! Questions for engineers: How much work would it take to go from this process to producing a working chip in his garage, like a 6502 or something? Would it be at all feasible? He did point out a ton of defects in the final product, probably due to dust or scratches in his equipment/materials. Would it be possible to clean this up enough to get 1-2 usable chips from a single sheet of 4x5 film? Without…

Here is a blog on home IC production: http://sam.zeloof.xyz/first-ic/

Having done some work in a university lab, I have no desire to be involved in silicon work in a home environment. It requires dangerous chemicals, and lots of equipment and dedication.

A short list of what I remember: - Spin coater - Some solution of exposure of masks - Various chemical baths (HH, piranha, etc) in a dedicated area. - Inspection microscope - Tube oven - Vapor deposition - A way to measure film thickness

Re: Antique 4x5 camera creates 20 micron photolithography masks [video]

#27

Post by bkraz »

chongli wrote: post #20

This is so cool! Questions for engineers: How much work would it take to go from this process to producing a working chip in his garage, like a 6502 or something? Would it be at all feasible? He did point out a ton of defects in the final product, probably due to dust or scratches in his equipment/materials. Would it be possible to clean this up enough to get 1-2 usable chips from a single sheet of 4x5 film? Without…

Sam Zeloof (also on YouTube) has already done it! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7E8-0Ou69hwScPW1_fQApA Check out all of his amazing work.

Re: Antique 4x5 camera creates 20 micron photolithography masks [video]

#29

Post by klodolph »

madaxe_again wrote: post #4

I used to travel with a crown graphic - pretty much the same camera as in the video, shooting colour positive. You can do some great stuff with them, and tilt-shift is trivial, if that’s your thing. Quality on slow film is just crazy - I’ve a shot of an ex, she’s half-frame, and you can see the second hand on her watch - you can get very fine focus with a loupe, and having a Polaroid back to do some instant tests was…

Going to admit that I only scanned through the video.

More so than in smaller formats, B&W is cheaper. Older style emulsions (cubic grain) are also cheaper than newer style (tabular / shell / whatever). Litho film is cheaper still.

B&W is USD$1-$3 per shot in 4x5, and if you process yourself you’re only paying for your own time and consumables. Newer styles like Delta, T-Max go for $2-$3. Older styles like HP5, FP4, Tri-X go for $1.50-$2.50. Budget lines like Arista can be found around $1/sheet.

Ortho litho (what is being used in the video) has always been dirt cheap by comparison. It’s like $0.30 per sheet. Basically, all of the technical innovation that has gone into modern film is simply not used in ortho litho. You just need high contrast and resolution, that’s it. So you don’t need complicated sensitizing dyes or anything of that sort.

Re: Antique 4x5 camera creates 20 micron photolithography masks [video]

#30

Post by IIAOPSW »

bkraz wrote: post #24

Hi. I'm the creator of this video. Let me know if you have any questions.

I've been following you since you made your own aerogel.

Now that you're working with thought emporium, are you worried you might one day be replaced with headcheese?

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