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National Emergency Library

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Re: National Emergency Library

#21

Post by michaelmrose »

leephillips wrote: post #20
michaelmrose wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How will someone who always works remotely be financially impacted by isolation orders?

If you steal my book from the "Emergency Library" instead of buying an electronic copy, I get financially impacted.

> pointing out that this will make it harder for them to eat and pay rent during the isolation period.

This implies that "during the isolation period" modifies "harder to eat and pay rent" in a meaningful fashion. Restaurant workers are having a harder time paying rent.

Authors save for a privileged minority have traditionally struggled to pay rent as well but presumably no more than normally.

Re: National Emergency Library

#22

Post by dorchadas »

leephillips wrote: post #18
8bitsrule wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my whole life, I've never heard of a significant author who complained about one of their books being in a library, or about library patrons as 'thieves'. IA has deals with countless libraries, and since the libraries are closed, and the online schools are open, I very much doubt that IA will keep up with the temporary loss of the libraries or the needs of schools. "Public support for this emergency measure has co…

This is not a complaint about libraries or library patrons. I love and use libraries. Authors love to see their books in libraries, including their ebooks. The details matter. Scanning a book and putting it on the internet without the right to do so is not what a library does.

I think there might be some misunderstanding. There was a good comment on Reddit [1] about how all this was legal. From what I gathered, libraries scanned books that didn't have digital copies already made, and offered them to patrons to "check out". They used software to make sure that they only checked out a total combined digital/print number equal to the number of print copies they had bought, with software to make sure they couldn't be copied. That seems fair, to me (and is, apparently, legal). The National Emergency Library basically opens that up to anyone now, however, with no limits on how many times a book can be checked out at once.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/fpsqm0/the_internet_...

Re: National Emergency Library

#23

Post by dorchadas »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #8

Does anyone know how they're legally able to do this, when publishers make my local library buy a license for every concurrent copy of an ebook that someone checks out?

Here is a comment on Reddit [1], from the copyright person cited in this article [2] about the legality of it. From what I can gather, libraries scanned books that didn't have digital copies already made, and offered them to patrons to "check out". They used software to make sure that they only checked out a total combined digital/print number equal to the number of print copies they had bought, with software to make sure they couldn't be copied. That seems fair, to me (and is, apparently, legal). The National Emergency Library basically opens that up to anyone now, however, with no limits on how many times a book can be checked out at once.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/fpsqm0/the_internet_...

[2]https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/the-national-eme...

Re: National Emergency Library

#24

Post by leephillips »

dorchadas wrote: post #22
leephillips wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a complaint about libraries or library patrons. I love and use libraries. Authors love to see their books in libraries, including their ebooks. The details matter. Scanning a book and putting it on the internet without the right to do so is not what a library does.

I think there might be some misunderstanding. There was a good comment on Reddit [1] about how all this was legal. From what I gathered, libraries scanned books that didn't have digital copies already made, and offered them to patrons to "check out". They used software to make sure that they only checked out a total combined digital/print number equal to the number of print copies they had bought, with software to ma…

I don't think there is a misunderstanding. In fact, your informative comment explains the crucial difference between what a legitimate, copyright-respecting library does and what the "Emergency Library" is doing. This is, in fact, why authors, who never complained about real libraries, are complaining about this.

Re: National Emergency Library

#25

Post by leephillips »

michaelmrose wrote: post #21
leephillips wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you steal my book from the "Emergency Library" instead of buying an electronic copy, I get financially impacted.

> pointing out that this will make it harder for them to eat and pay rent during the isolation period. This implies that "during the isolation period" modifies "harder to eat and pay rent" in a meaningful fashion. Restaurant workers are having a harder time paying rent. Authors save for a privileged minority have traditionally struggled to pay rent as well but presumably no more than normally.

Now I understand your point, which is a reasonable one. The situation is that the economy in general is tanking, people are not going to bookstores, etc., so authors, who, as you point out, are not wealthy, have even less income now. In other words, it's a particularly cruel time for the "Emergency Library" to be taking money out of their pockets.

Re: National Emergency Library

#26

Post by michaelmrose »

leephillips wrote: post #25
michaelmrose wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pointing out that this will make it harder for them to eat and pay rent during the isolation period. This implies that "during the isolation period" modifies "harder to eat and pay rent" in a meaningful fashion. Restaurant workers are having a harder time paying rent. Authors save for a privileged minority have traditionally struggled to pay rent as well but presumably no more than normally.

Now I understand your point, which is a reasonable one. The situation is that the economy in general is tanking, people are not going to bookstores, etc., so authors, who, as you point out, are not wealthy, have even less income now. In other words, it's a particularly cruel time for the "Emergency Library" to be taking money out of their pockets.

So if most authors don't make a whole lot anyway if copyright went away or was drastically limited but you received basic income and medical would you be better off or worse?

Re: National Emergency Library

#27

Post by julianz »

8bitsrule wrote: post #7

If you go to the site and click the 'Views' sort-by, you'll see the most popular titles. For some reason, #1 at the moment, by a factor of 3, is Sylvia Brown's 2008 End of Days . Go figure. Brown was 'a medium with psychic abilities.' Yep, that's where we're at. Viewed 20 times more than 'You Can Negotiate Anything'.

I think there was an article the other day about people who supposedly predicted COVID-19 in books, etc. Pretty sure they included her and also pointed out all the other things she got way wrong. But that probably explains a lot of the clicks.

Re: National Emergency Library

#28

Post by geofft »

8bitsrule wrote: post #12
leephillips wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not. They are violating copyright law, and stealing from writers and publishers. Twitter is full of complaints by writers who discovered their illegally scanned books here, pointing out that this will make it harder for them to eat and pay rent during the isolation period.

In my whole life, I've never heard of a significant author who complained about one of their books being in a library, or about library patrons as 'thieves'. IA has deals with countless libraries, and since the libraries are closed, and the online schools are open, I very much doubt that IA will keep up with the temporary loss of the libraries or the needs of schools. "Public support for this emergency measure has co…

The distinction is that each library needs to buy a copy - if not several copies - of the book. Patrons of libraries cause money to end up in the pockets of authors/publishers. If a library wants to make a book available to multiple patrons, it needs to buy multiple copies.

IA is suspending the check-out logic they'd previously been using on these scans, which breaks that connection. Now a thousand people stuck at home can read the same scans free online.

(My opinion here, without thinking very hard, is that what IA is doing is reasonable for out-of-print books or books not available in ebook form, especially textbooks and such, but probably less reasonable for recent books easy available as ebooks. It may still be fair use in both cases, though.)

Re: National Emergency Library

#29

Post by justinclift »

leephillips wrote: post #18
8bitsrule wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my whole life, I've never heard of a significant author who complained about one of their books being in a library, or about library patrons as 'thieves'. IA has deals with countless libraries, and since the libraries are closed, and the online schools are open, I very much doubt that IA will keep up with the temporary loss of the libraries or the needs of schools. "Public support for this emergency measure has co…

This is not a complaint about libraries or library patrons. I love and use libraries. Authors love to see their books in libraries, including their ebooks. The details matter. Scanning a book and putting it on the internet without the right to do so is not what a library does.

Didn't Google do that too a few years ago, and get away with it?

Re: National Emergency Library

#30

Post by geofft »

dorchadas wrote: post #23
Rebelgecko wrote: post #8

Does anyone know how they're legally able to do this, when publishers make my local library buy a license for every concurrent copy of an ebook that someone checks out?

Here is a comment on Reddit [1], from the copyright person cited in this article [2] about the legality of it. From what I can gather, libraries scanned books that didn't have digital copies already made, and offered them to patrons to "check out". They used software to make sure that they only checked out a total combined digital/print number equal to the number of print copies they had bought, with software to make…

They're making a fair use claim through the duration of the national emergency. The blog post and the linked statement of support alludes to it a bit more clearly: http://blog.archive.org/2020/03/24/announcing-a-national-eme...
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