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Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

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Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#21

Post by DagAgren »

fierarul wrote: post #12
arghwhat wrote: post #4

Better title: Apple restricts tracking by limiting browser storage, which hurts my particular app. Browsers need to be severely limited due to them running arbitrary code from the web. Doesn't matter if it's an offline web app. If you want more access, make a native app (with or without web technologies).

But browsers are severely sandboxed already. What the article is talking about is: > deleting all local storage (including Indexed DB, etc.) after 7 days which I can see how it might help privacy (since you could be tracked via local storage too) but also how it might break any potential web app that might need data to last more than 7 days. > If you want more access, make a native app But then, everybody will compla…

They do not "change from one week to another". They have changed, what, twice ever?

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#23

Post by lotsofpulp »

fossTheWay wrote: post #9

>deleting all local storage (including Indexed DB, etc.) after 7 days Evil company. How do we fix this? Shame users? The problem is that the users are so brainwashed from decades of Marketing.

> The problem is that the users are so brainwashed from decades of Marketing.

Is there any other device or ecosystem of devices where my parents can fix their problems by turning it off and on? The fact that I have 80 years old grandparents who can’t read English using iPads and iPhones is not just marketing, that’s “not having to google and download malware bytes and ccleaner and go into regedit” to maybe fix issues.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#24

Post by donohoe »

I think it is worth noting that you can really say "Apple" is doing this or "Apple" is doing that with decisions at this level.

The company is just too big and not working in unison.

The Apple Safari Team is killing/hurting offline apps. The author asks why they don't take the same approach in Apple News - as if it is the same team that is in charge. Different team with different priorities and likely not talking to each-other.

I think the larger point is valid - but it better to understand that this isn't some cohesive cross-company strategy at play. Its size-able teams working on their own priorities within a larger roadmap (presumably).

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#25

Post by brazzy »

marcosdumay wrote: post #18
m-p-3 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's certainly a balance to achieve there. Too few permissions prompt and you lose control, and too many and you get desensitized or even worse annoyed at them.

There's no balance. You just let the user set any permission and make the prompts unobtrusive.

There is no such thing as an "unobtrusive" prompt.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#26

Post by MaxBarraclough »

diggan wrote: post #11
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #3

As the article explains, Offline Web App is being used to mean Progressive Web Application (the standard terminology). ( edit Turns out that's not quite right, see diggan's reply.) From the article: > You’d almost think they had an App Store to promote or something. There's certainly a tension here. I'm still not sure why more vendors don't make iOS PWAs to get around the App Store payment rules. Perhaps related: Ver…

offline web apps are different than PWA. A PWA doesn't necessarily work offline, but more is independent from the connection / loading of it. I do think most PWAs do work offline, but doesn't mean it's a requirement to call it a PWA. Similarly, an offline capable web app is not necessarily a PWA, as PWA carries a lot of features to it besides being offline capable.

Good points. I've edited my comment.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#27

Post by criddell »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #3

As the article explains, Offline Web App is being used to mean Progressive Web Application (the standard terminology). ( edit Turns out that's not quite right, see diggan's reply.) From the article: > You’d almost think they had an App Store to promote or something. There's certainly a tension here. I'm still not sure why more vendors don't make iOS PWAs to get around the App Store payment rules. Perhaps related: Ver…

> I'm still not sure why more vendors don't make iOS PWAs to get around the App Store payment rules.

Because users won't use them. For users that don't have a technical background: if it isn't in the app store then it essentially isn't an app. For techie users: lots of us don't want web apps because of the power, memory, and bandwidth usage is often higher than a well written native app. The fact that there's a gatekeeper who has some control over what shows up in the app store is usually a feature and not a bug.

If there were big parts of the app ecosystem that didn't have native apps, then eventually users would find web apps. But that isn't the case. Think of anything and search for it in the app store and there's an app for it (including 2048).

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#30

Post by codesections »

arghwhat wrote: post #4

Better title: Apple restricts tracking by limiting browser storage, which hurts my particular app. Browsers need to be severely limited due to them running arbitrary code from the web. Doesn't matter if it's an offline web app. If you want more access, make a native app (with or without web technologies).

> Apple restricts tracking by limiting browser storage

But the argument that this will protect privacy in the first place seems really weak.

Before this change in Apple's policy, an app could store my config data on my PC.

After this change, they'd need to have me log in and send the config data to their servers.

That seems like I've lost privacy, not gained it.

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