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Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

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Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#21

Post by abledon »

W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

Well... this guy would like a word with you: https://interestingengineering.com/a-gamer-just-beat-a-profe...

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#22

Post by Hamuko »

scarejunba wrote: post #20
Igelau wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aw shucks. Here I thought it was going to be totally identical.

Haha, right. That comment had literally zero information value. Obviously playing Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 is nothing like ollying your skateboard let alone any of the other tricks. Thinly veiled attempt to use online comment forum as a personal blog.

>Obviously playing Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 is nothing like ollying your skateboard let alone any of the other tricks.

Simulator racing is pretty different from Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2. There's so much shit that you can buy to get you closer to the real deal. Not really so much the case with Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2.

https://youtu.be/o1V8QEAdGNM

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#23

Post by Hamuko »

Scene_Cast2 wrote: post #6
lucb1e wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or even if they were, the "real" drivers are trained to respond to a completely different set of sensations. The simulation can be perfect, but when you're sitting still, you don't feel things such as whether the simulated car is slipping at all (just an example, there are of course a thousand other things).

Well, you feel it but in a different way. People spend a lot of money on Force Feedback wheels, with the fancier ones running into 4 figures. Through the wheel, you're expected to feel everything including tyre grip, slip, road conditions, etc.

>Through the wheel, you're expected to feel everything including tyre grip, slip, road conditions, etc.

Well, there are other solutions for that as well, but that's beyond most mortals.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#24

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

To me, the interesting question is not whether the experience is the same for the driver, because obviously it cannot be. What's interesting is whether the skills transfer. I would assume they do to some degree, but there are probably bits you can't learn except by doing.

The reason why the question is interesting is because I love the notion that you can train in a less expensive context and then perform in a higher stakes one. I'm interested why some domains allow that and others do not. Flight simulators are another interesting case where mechanical skills transfer, but that's only a small part of what real world flying really is. On the other hand, by all accounts, drone racing sims are quite good for learning how to fly the real thing, since it's almost all mechanics.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#25

Post by DonHopkins »

W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

As someone who has run around spastically and sweated a lot and forgotten to breath and lost my balance then fallen over flat on my face because I got a boner, I found Severe Running extremely realistic and pretty much exactly like the real thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrUWFo2D1Xs

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#26

Post by lordnacho »

Soccer clubs are arranging matchups between pro players who now have no real matches to play. Could be a big thing for eSports.

It's well known that a lot of pro soccer players spend a lot of time on consoles, to the point where they complain if they feel their virtual stats are too low.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#27

Post by nordsieck »

W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

> As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and the lack of being able to see much other than straight ahead. Grand Prix Legends and iRacing were/are both tremendous fun and a real achievement - but they are nothing like the real thing.

Counterpoint:

In 2013, TopGear took a top rated iRacing competitor (Greger Huttu) and put him in a proper race car. Yes, he had to bow out due to the physical stress eventually. However, He did really well while he lasted. I think it's a stretch to say "they are nothing like the real thing".

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/gaming/geek-rebooted

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#28

Post by smileysteve »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #24
W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

To me, the interesting question is not whether the experience is the same for the driver, because obviously it cannot be. What's interesting is whether the skills transfer. I would assume they do to some degree, but there are probably bits you can't learn except by doing. The reason why the question is interesting is because I love the notion that you can train in a less expensive context and then perform in a higher…

The Netflix F1 series includes a segment of driving the sim blindfolded and calling out each turn as it was happening.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#29

Post by handedness »

W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

Counterpoint: as someone who's also raced both to a sufficient degree to know (from well before GPL to rFactor and iRacing in terms of simulators, and in KT100, Super Comp and other real-world categories), the skills are far more transferable than you're indicating.

There's still a big difference between the two, but "almost nothing in common" is not an accurate description. And there's a reason the top guys on either discipline can switch over and still be quite competent–if not world-beating–on the other side.

All of the top teams use simulators based on commercially-available simulation engines to develop the car and solicit feedback.

The skills are largely transferable for many drivers. There are a few odd cases–Michael Schumacher famously became too motion sick in the simulator to use it–but those are exceptions. Maybe you're one of them (and if so, you're in very good company!)

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#30

Post by alkonaut »

W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

Seems like most of that should be fixable. You’ll not get more than 1G sustained (and usually a lot less since they won’t tilt more than a bit) in the simulator of course, but any sound volume and heat level should at least be doable. Steering feedback in the most expensive controllers systems should be realistic enough to be able to mimic the real thing (if the simulation is up to it).

A good simulation obviously only lets you see from the eye position of the driver, so the complaint is usually that you see less than in a race car because you only have a small screen and a poor sense of depth. Today I hope anyone serious about “pro” level simulation just uses VR. It gives stereo depth, you can look out side windows etc.

Obviously if you run a racing sim in an office chair with a cheap pair of pedals and a cheap steering wheel then it’s not going to be close to the real thing.

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