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RFC: Adopt a modern JavaScript framework for use with MediaWiki

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Re: RFC: Adopt a modern JavaScript framework for use with MediaWiki

#21

Post by fraktl »

z0mbie42 wrote: post #13
112 wrote: post #5

I've loved Vue for a long time, worked two years with it almost daily, but right now I avoid it as much as I can, as I can't stand working with JavaScript without TypeScript. The TypeScript support in the current version of Vue is crap, and the simplest things, such as creating a (typed) component library, are hard and require numerous hacks. If I were to use something that lacks TypeScript support, it would be Svelt…

I would love to know why are you saying this. I use Vue2 + Typescript, and for me it works great! Even Auto-completion works.

Because he never used Vue with TS. It's a blatant lie and utter bullshit.

Re: RFC: Adopt a modern JavaScript framework for use with MediaWiki

#22

Post by speedgoose »

I have used react and vue and I prefer vue. React is fine but it has a few issues such as having to write className instead of class in the html templates (yes I know why). It's not a big difference between all these new frameworks though, and it will be a huge improvement over html generated from PHP with some jQuery.

Re: RFC: Adopt a modern JavaScript framework for use with MediaWiki

#23

Post by baybal2 »

112 wrote: post #5

I've loved Vue for a long time, worked two years with it almost daily, but right now I avoid it as much as I can, as I can't stand working with JavaScript without TypeScript. The TypeScript support in the current version of Vue is crap, and the simplest things, such as creating a (typed) component library, are hard and require numerous hacks. If I were to use something that lacks TypeScript support, it would be Svelt…

A reverse situation here. I deal with strict no typescript policy, so besides a problem of finding typescript devs, we have a problem of having to "de-typescript" a lot of 3rd party code.

Typescript has a lot of adoption within with ex-Java devs, and with that comes a lot of "Java-think." It's hard for these people to adapt to not doing things "the Java way" and vice versa.

And another part of the problem is that people have burnt themselves badly with Coffeescript, Clojurescript, and few other *scripts that were coming and going trends, and were an enormous LTS burden because of tooling that breaks as fast as you fix it.

Re: RFC: Adopt a modern JavaScript framework for use with MediaWiki

#24

Post by NetOpWibby »

woutr_be wrote: post #8
eknkc wrote: post #4

Well I guess you can not go wrong with either React or Vue at this point as they have mature communities. However I feel like while React is just fantastic on its corner, Svelte seems like a better built Vue than Vue. It lacks the community but technically feels like a refinement and enhancement of Vue’s ideas. I wish it would gain more traction.

To me the difference is that Svelte is a lot more pure JavaScript than Vue. I haven't had the chance to use it in any larger project, but in my small playgrounds, I've definitely enjoyed it more than Vue.

If you wanna see Svelte in production, I’m using it for my homepage: https://webb.page

I’m glad to see Svelte growing in popularity here.

Re: RFC: Adopt a modern JavaScript framework for use with MediaWiki

#25

Post by nullc »

fraktl wrote: post #20
112 wrote: post #5

I've loved Vue for a long time, worked two years with it almost daily, but right now I avoid it as much as I can, as I can't stand working with JavaScript without TypeScript. The TypeScript support in the current version of Vue is crap, and the simplest things, such as creating a (typed) component library, are hard and require numerous hacks. If I were to use something that lacks TypeScript support, it would be Svelt…

What you wrote is blatant lie, particularly the part with creating a typed component library. I've created 7 components as of yesterday, using TS, zero hacks and zero problems. It's so annoying when a person with clear lack of understanding decides they're competent to critique a tool and then they literally - lie. Keep using React, it's awesome you like it but please - do some fact checking. I know you want to belie…

Would it be so hard to start with an assumption that the person you're responding to is working with outdated information or that they're just confused?

Even if they were intentionally lying (why??) it would hurt no one to humor it and be polite, and it would do a lot towards making this a more enjoyable place to read.

Your post was informative, too bad it made me just want to close this tab.

Re: RFC: Adopt a modern JavaScript framework for use with MediaWiki

#26

Post by manigandham »

baybal2 wrote: post #23
112 wrote: post #5

I've loved Vue for a long time, worked two years with it almost daily, but right now I avoid it as much as I can, as I can't stand working with JavaScript without TypeScript. The TypeScript support in the current version of Vue is crap, and the simplest things, such as creating a (typed) component library, are hard and require numerous hacks. If I were to use something that lacks TypeScript support, it would be Svelt…

A reverse situation here. I deal with strict no typescript policy, so besides a problem of finding typescript devs, we have a problem of having to "de-typescript" a lot of 3rd party code. Typescript has a lot of adoption within with ex-Java devs, and with that comes a lot of "Java-think." It's hard for these people to adapt to not doing things "the Java way" and vice versa. And another part of the problem is that peo…

Why? Typescript just compiles down to JS, and type definitions are used IDEs so they still help when writing JS.

How does removing typescript help you?

Re: RFC: Adopt a modern JavaScript framework for use with MediaWiki

#27

Post by ThePhysicist »

baybal2 wrote: post #23
112 wrote: post #5

I've loved Vue for a long time, worked two years with it almost daily, but right now I avoid it as much as I can, as I can't stand working with JavaScript without TypeScript. The TypeScript support in the current version of Vue is crap, and the simplest things, such as creating a (typed) component library, are hard and require numerous hacks. If I were to use something that lacks TypeScript support, it would be Svelt…

A reverse situation here. I deal with strict no typescript policy, so besides a problem of finding typescript devs, we have a problem of having to "de-typescript" a lot of 3rd party code. Typescript has a lot of adoption within with ex-Java devs, and with that comes a lot of "Java-think." It's hard for these people to adapt to not doing things "the Java way" and vice versa. And another part of the problem is that peo…

Why do you have to de-typify Typescript dependencies? You can mix typed and untyped code with a gradual typing approach, and tools like webpack make this very easy?

Re: RFC: Adopt a modern JavaScript framework for use with MediaWiki

#28

Post by Kiro »

baybal2 wrote: post #23
112 wrote: post #5

I've loved Vue for a long time, worked two years with it almost daily, but right now I avoid it as much as I can, as I can't stand working with JavaScript without TypeScript. The TypeScript support in the current version of Vue is crap, and the simplest things, such as creating a (typed) component library, are hard and require numerous hacks. If I were to use something that lacks TypeScript support, it would be Svelt…

A reverse situation here. I deal with strict no typescript policy, so besides a problem of finding typescript devs, we have a problem of having to "de-typescript" a lot of 3rd party code. Typescript has a lot of adoption within with ex-Java devs, and with that comes a lot of "Java-think." It's hard for these people to adapt to not doing things "the Java way" and vice versa. And another part of the problem is that peo…

Sorry, but that's just crazy. I would avoid your company like the plague.

Re: RFC: Adopt a modern JavaScript framework for use with MediaWiki

#29

Post by baybal2 »

manigandham wrote: post #26
baybal2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A reverse situation here. I deal with strict no typescript policy, so besides a problem of finding typescript devs, we have a problem of having to "de-typescript" a lot of 3rd party code. Typescript has a lot of adoption within with ex-Java devs, and with that comes a lot of "Java-think." It's hard for these people to adapt to not doing things "the Java way" and vice versa. And another part of the problem is that peo…

Why? Typescript just compiles down to JS, and type definitions are used IDEs so they still help when writing JS. How does removing typescript help you?

> How does removing typescript help you?

https://github.com/microsoft/TypeScript/issues

Please count the number of open bugs

JS tooling is already an enormous jenga tower as it is, with tooling breakages eating a double digit of developer time. Adding typescript on top of that would be the real madness.

Typescript will not help us a dime with type checking for most of devs we hire are long past the stage when typing errors are a thing for them.

On the down side, even certainly not cheap to hire devs with 6-7-8-10+ years of experience have to battle JS tooling every day.

Like half of all genuine bug triage time is already spent on webpack, bable, and other things in the tooling stack. 200 hours a month for $30-$40 per hour devs.

Imagine doubling that digit when they have to also spend time on learning typescript, and fixing it.

No, it does not pay off at all

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