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Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation

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Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation

#21

Post by m463 »

doctoring wrote: post #18

This article brings up a specific inflammation-related protein (HMGB1) as being correlated with cognitive impairment after an ICU stay. Usually an ICU stay is the result of being profoundly and dangerously ill -- going to the ICU likely means that you need significant pharmacological and/or mechanical assistance in the basic things like... circulating blood. Or oxygenation. And once there, you may have tubes/catheter…

I wonder what would the effects be of a "control situation" where you stay at home in bed. You are fed there using the same "nutrients", you get the same amount of exercise (none) and may even be induced to less motion by sleeping.

Also think of all the stuff you're exposed to in the ICU -- lots of patients come back from a hospital stay exposed to a number of things like MRSA or worse.

Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation

#22

Post by DoreenMichele »

14 wrote: post #8

This makes me wonder what is happening during an extreme tooth ache. During those times when I have had a bad tooth it is like my mind is in slow motion and the ability to think is gone. I have had extreme pain and still been able to think clearly but with an inflamed tooth it’s a different experience.

Teeth are fairly near the brain and are part of the skeleton. Except for teeth, bone infections are typically considered to be very, very serious.

Bone marrow is an important part of the immune system. White blood cells and what not originate there.

I feel like if you look at a tooth ache as a skeletal issue, the seriousness of it begins to make more sense.

Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation

#24

Post by ufmace »

arkades wrote: post #20
post_below wrote: post #2

This topic is interesting to me for a few reasons... Cognitive impairment has long been associated with inflammation in older adults: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3390758/ As well as the general population where illness is involved: https://psychcentral.com/news/2019/12/01/inflammation-linked... And it contributes to a variety of disorders (potentially almost all of them). The research here is pretty…

>This topic is interesting to me for a few reasons... >Cognitive impairment has long been associated with inflammation in older adults: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3390758/ Once upon a time, when I was an itty bitty grad student, I had an appointment with an immunology PI to ask to be involved in their research. One of the first questions they asked me was, what's inflammation? "You want the layman's…

Well now that's interesting. A lot of medical/health/nutrition information these days seems to revolve around inflammation. Much of it is supposedly backed by studies (that I don't really have the time or understanding to dive into), but there's just so many things that supposedly cause it and are supposedly caused by it that I get the feeling that we don't really have any idea at all what it is and what it does. It's like it's some magic spell that is caused by whatever thing you're ideologically against, and causes basically everything you don't like.

Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation

#25

Post by post_below »

joshspankit wrote: post #17
post_below wrote: post #2

This topic is interesting to me for a few reasons... Cognitive impairment has long been associated with inflammation in older adults: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3390758/ As well as the general population where illness is involved: https://psychcentral.com/news/2019/12/01/inflammation-linked... And it contributes to a variety of disorders (potentially almost all of them). The research here is pretty…

This topic is also interesting to me and I’ve thankfully had some opportunity to observe friends and family in a way that verifies a lot of the claims. Here are my thoughts on why it’s not in the zeitgeist to the level you’d expect: 1) A lot of people have normalized to inflammation and just assume that’s how their brains function 2) In addition to the “obvious” things like diet and exercise, there’s a significant im…

> there’s a significant impact through environment

Yes environment is a better term (it includes diet, medically speaking). Modern life isn't something we're well suited for from an evolutionary standpoint.

> We rarely talk socially about symptoms like brain fog, memory lapses, mild pain, anxiousness, speediness, etc as anything related to diet or environmental exposure. Previous generations seem to have mental and emotional wellbeing the same attention as they gave to the supernatural, and we seem to have to continually shake off mindsets like “if I can’t measure it it doesn’t exist”

So true, and it's still a thing to a lesser degree in younger generations. Fortunately we increasingly can measure it.

Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation

#26

Post by post_below »

ufmace wrote: post #24
arkades wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This topic is interesting to me for a few reasons... >Cognitive impairment has long been associated with inflammation in older adults: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3390758/ Once upon a time, when I was an itty bitty grad student, I had an appointment with an immunology PI to ask to be involved in their research. One of the first questions they asked me was, what's inflammation? "You want the layman's…

Well now that's interesting. A lot of medical/health/nutrition information these days seems to revolve around inflammation. Much of it is supposedly backed by studies (that I don't really have the time or understanding to dive into), but there's just so many things that supposedly cause it and are supposedly caused by it that I get the feeling that we don't really have any idea at all what it is and what it does. It'…

We do know a lot about it, though, much more, I'm assuming, than we did when the previous poster was a grad student.

We know about different types of inflammation and the cellular processes involved, we know how it turns on and off, we know more about how it effects different systems and organs in the body. We can distinguish between short term and chronic inflammation and differentiate between types of inflammation that are beneficial and types that aren't.

There are, of course, lots of articles and trends out there that over simplify and make unreasonable associations and leaps... the comparison to quantum mechanics is apt in that way. But irresponsible reporting doesn't invalidate the source.

Our understanding is well beyond abstract at this point, despite how much we still don't know. The bulk of what we don't know outweighs what we do in most areas of biology.

Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation

#27

Post by hinkley »

throwaway_tech wrote: post #6
post_below wrote: post #2

This topic is interesting to me for a few reasons... Cognitive impairment has long been associated with inflammation in older adults: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3390758/ As well as the general population where illness is involved: https://psychcentral.com/news/2019/12/01/inflammation-linked... And it contributes to a variety of disorders (potentially almost all of them). The research here is pretty…

>We know that exercise levels and diet can lower or increase inflammation. I think it is extremely important to distinguish the types of inflammation. Exercise creates acute inflammation (for example the breakdown of certain muscle tissue in response to being worked) and the inflammation causes the body to repair the muscle, typically the resulting muscle tissue is improved. Whereas dietary inflammation, or inflammat…

Sometimes the body gets confused about what it's supposed to be doing and accidentally fixes another problem.

We had a story recently about viral infections and cancer. Someone reminded me the other day that, before antibiotics, one treatment for venereal diseases was to expose yourself to another disease.

I wonder if we're going to figure out that these "dietary inflammation" issues were always in our diets, but that we were so active that muscle tissue repair mopped up most of the problem.

Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation

#28

Post by arkades »

post_below wrote: post #26
ufmace wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well now that's interesting. A lot of medical/health/nutrition information these days seems to revolve around inflammation. Much of it is supposedly backed by studies (that I don't really have the time or understanding to dive into), but there's just so many things that supposedly cause it and are supposedly caused by it that I get the feeling that we don't really have any idea at all what it is and what it does. It'…

We do know a lot about it, though, much more, I'm assuming, than we did when the previous poster was a grad student. We know about different types of inflammation and the cellular processes involved, we know how it turns on and off, we know more about how it effects different systems and organs in the body. We can distinguish between short term and chronic inflammation and differentiate between types of inflammation…

OP went on to medical school after finishing that grad degree. We know a lot more about molecular biology. That we clump stuff under the header of "inflammation" is a categorization/naming issue, not a biology issue :)

Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation

#29

Post by hoopism »

Anyone know if this is anyway related to PANDAS condition (RE: inflammation -> cognitive changes)? We were recently introduced to the condition and my understanding is the theory is inflammation is caused by the bodies immunity response to strep virus (I might be off on that explanation). The idea inflammation could give rise to cognitive impairments/changes would appear to lend some credence (or maybe that is just already established??). We have a daughter who checks some of the boxes on what people describe as the condition and are just getting an understanding.

Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation

#30

Post by H_Pylori »

throwawayiIiIII wrote: post #14

I'm in my thirties and had unresolved medical issues for a decade. And in that time experienced much of our health system including visiting psychologists and taking antidepressants. And nothing really helped. The only thing that happened is that I learned to live with it. The only constant in all is an allergy and a cyst causing constant swelling and inflammation. The technical appearance of this, and lab results, n…

I'm in a similar boat. I don't go to the doctor anymore, I don't like my symptoms to be blamed on an inexistent depression. If I understand correctly you had your cyst removed. Did all your symptoms go away?
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